Skill Sharing Session #1 (Log)

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 11 21:12:18 2009

aza 11 21:12:18 <Alster>	Roll call: everyone quickly introduces themselves * Why do you take part in the skill sharing? * What is your technical background, if any? * Is there something specific you would like to learn? * Is there something you could teach the others? 
aza 11 21:12:38 <Alster>	I think we already know each other a bit, but the other questions would be of interest to me
aza 11 21:13:14 <Alster>	i suggest everyone of us notes down a n answer to these questions and then pastes it here
aza 11 21:13:21 <txopi>	ok
aza 11 21:13:43 <harcesz>	harcesz - imc-pl on exile (.ie), one of 2 active polish tech collective members, got the basics, no proper it background
aza 11 21:14:30 <didleth>	didleth: i'm imc-pl and have no tech-knowledge
aza 11 21:16:06 <didleth>	well, maybe a have, but only a little bit - to restart tomcat and delete backups ;-)
aza 11 21:18:40 <harcesz>	....so.... ?
aza 11 21:18:54 *	txopi is ready to paste
aza 11 21:19:16 <Alster>	harcesz: did you answer the last question?
aza 11 21:19:20 *	txopi gives channel operator status to Hey_neken
aza 11 21:19:31 <Alster>	or the last 2 actually
aza 11 21:19:58 <Alster>	or dont you want to, that's fine with me, just please say so
aza 11 21:20:04 <didleth>	'Is there something you could teach the others? ' - in my case... is there someone who can't restart tomcat or delete backup? ;D
aza 11 21:20:35 <Alster>	maybe Heyneken but i wouldn't know
aza 11 21:20:52 <harcesz>	sry - server administration, I dont think so, well I can translate but most of my knowledge is irrelevant here
aza 11 21:21:29 <harcesz>	(unless were talking about really basic stuff)
aza 11 21:22:16 <Alster>	i think we'Re talking about everything. we also have two IMCs here which maintain a Mir site. 
aza 11 21:23:04 <Alster>	so here's my answers, pretty long, sorry:
aza 11 21:23:06 <Alster>	* Why do you take part in the skill sharing? 
aza 11 21:23:06 <Alster>	I'd like to empower more IMCs to maintain not only their own CMS (I can not really help there) but also to maintain their own Indymedia server (or virtual private server). The skill sharing is an attempt to achieve this.
aza 11 21:23:06 <Alster>	I also hope to learn more in the skill sharing, both technically and, probably even more, socially.
aza 11 21:23:06 <Alster>	I'm also interested in getting an idea of how other IMCs work, what their specific hopes and issues are (since these can be very different across different IMCs, I've learnt).
aza 11 21:23:07 <Alster>	* What is your technical background, if any? 
aza 11 21:23:09 <Alster>	I've been doing linux sysadmin for a couple years. There's many people doing that for Indymedia who are better than me on this, but I think I have some experience myself by now. I'm also into security, mostly web application (CMS/web scripting) security.
aza 11 21:23:18 <Alster>	* Is there something specific you would like to learn? 
aza 11 21:23:18 <Alster>	More about social interaction and group dynamics.
aza 11 21:23:19 <Alster>	* Is there something you could teach the others? 
aza 11 21:23:21 <Alster>	I think I already answered this. It's mostly on the agenda already. But there can be more, so if anyone wants something else, please say so.
aza 11 21:23:26 <Alster>	how about txopi ?
aza 11 21:23:33 <Alster>	can you copy + paste?
aza 11 21:24:29 <txopi>	* Why do you take part in the skill sharing? 
aza 11 21:24:29 <txopi>	I take part in this skill sharing becasue they are some important task that must be done in kosmos and i have no clue about how to do them.
aza 11 21:24:29 <txopi>	* What is your technical background, if any? 
aza 11 21:24:29 <txopi>	Mi technical background is knoledge about programming and a bit of sys admin.
aza 11 21:24:29 <txopi>	* Is there something specific you would like to learn? 
aza 11 21:24:29 <txopi>	The things i would like to learn are log checking, how make backups and how put them offsite.
aza 11 21:24:29 <txopi>	* Is there something you could teach the others?
aza 11 21:24:29 <txopi>	I have knoledge and i could teach about bash, shell commands, apt
aza 11 21:24:37 <harcesz>	well I got a firm understanding of client-side mir, basic linux cli and i'm good at breaking things ;]
aza 11 21:24:58 <harcesz>	+1 txopi 1'st point
aza 11 21:25:13 <Alster>	can anyone who has some spare time already check the decider again, and make more votes for next week?
aza 11 21:25:54 *	ga (~ga@xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx) has joined #kosmos
aza 11 21:25:57 *	didleth1 (~didleth@xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx) has joined #kosmos
aza 11 21:26:01 <Alster>	hey ga :)
aza 11 21:26:08 <didleth1>	sorry, broken conection
aza 11 21:26:15 <didleth1>	did I miss something?
aza 11 21:26:17 <harcesz>	https://labs.riseup.net/decider/issue/view/mlyudahkichuchucezoh
aza 11 21:26:17 <ga>	hi all
aza 11 21:26:22 <Alster>	what's the last line you saw didleth1 ?
aza 11 21:26:30 <didleth1>	(21:21:25) harcesz: (unless were talking about really basic stuff)
aza 11 21:26:41 <txopi>	Alster, make more votes for next week? you mean vote again with other name?
aza 11 21:26:44 *	didleth has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
aza 11 21:26:52 <Alster>	didleth1: i'll post you the logs after that in a private message
aza 11 21:27:04 <didleth1>	ok, thx Alster :]
aza 11 21:27:10 *	didleth1 is now known as Didleth
aza 11 21:27:27 *	ChanServ gives channel operator status to Didleth
aza 11 21:29:16 <txopi>	ga, we are answering some questins to know what each know and what he/she wants to learn or can tech
aza 11 21:29:23 <txopi>	do you want to answer too?
aza 11 21:29:35 *	txopi gives channel operator status to ga
aza 11 21:30:24 <ga>	ok, no proble, although I'm not sure if I'm the right person for teach nothing :P
aza 11 21:31:10 <Alster>	brb sorry, fighting with a bot
aza 11 21:31:29 <txopi>	ga, i give you the questions in private
aza 11 21:31:34 <ga>	ok
aza 11 21:32:30 *	Alster has changed the topic to: https://docs.indymedia.org/Sysadmin/KosmosSkillSharing | Work sessions: Friday, 13. Nov 09, 19.00 CET | Will you have time next week? Please vote! https://labs.riseup.net/decider/issue/view/mlyudahkichuchucezoh
aza 11 21:32:43 <Alster>	ga: it's not just about this, it's also what you'd like to learn
aza 11 21:34:26 <ga>	oks
aza 11 21:35:14 *	harcesz has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
aza 11 21:36:13 <Alster>	ga: are you still composing an answer to the questions (that's find, I'm just reassuring you actually do and we do not wait for nothing)?
aza 11 21:36:34 <Alster>	"that's fine", not "that's find"
aza 11 21:37:19 *	harcesz (~harcesz@xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx) has joined #kosmos
aza 11 21:37:19 *	ChanServ gives channel operator status to harcesz
aza 11 21:37:34 <harcesz>	re, client fail
aza 11 21:38:18 <ga>	yup Alster , I'm answering the questions
aza 11 21:38:28 <ga>	and reading what you all have said
aza 11 21:39:20 <Alster>	great
aza 11 21:39:32 <Alster>	i just pasted the backlog to harcesz
aza 11 21:41:10 <txopi>	me too to ga
aza 11 21:41:52 <Alster>	okay, just say when you're done or ask additional questions if you'd like to
aza 11 21:42:33 <Alster>	actually i have one myself: txopi, since you know bash, would you like to take over one of those skill sharing sessions? I'd be happy not to need to run all of them
aza 11 21:42:51 <Alster>	same for apt
aza 11 21:44:01 *	harcesz filled up decider
aza 11 21:44:54 <txopi>	my apt knoledge is basic. i think is better if you explain them
aza 11 21:45:12 <txopi>	i can explain bash basics and shell commands pt 1
aza 11 21:45:20 <Alster>	\o/
aza 11 21:45:32 <Alster>	sounds good :)
aza 11 21:45:55 <Alster>	so, everyone finished reading yet?
aza 11 21:46:09 <Alster>	ga, do you want to paste your answers and continue reading later?
aza 11 21:47:09 <ga>	okei
aza 11 21:48:02 <ga>	* Why do you take part in the skill sharing? 
aza 11 21:48:02 <ga>	I would like to help our IMC to migrate to the a new server, in order to avoid technical issues. Or solve the current ones. 
aza 11 21:48:05 <ga>	* What is your technical background, if any? 
aza 11 21:48:08 <ga>	I have knowledgments about perl/bash/c/c++ programming, and I work administrating, setting up and monitoring security appliances.
aza 11 21:48:11 <ga>	* Is there something specific you would like to learn? 
aza 11 21:48:13 <ga>	HTTP SSL certificates. More about (complicated) regular expressions (always using the same ones since.. uf)
aza 11 21:48:16 <ga>	* Is there something you could teach the others?
aza 11 21:48:19 <ga>	A bit of regular expressions, bash scripting, bash..
aza 11 21:48:34 <harcesz>	work as in get paid or work = do it for indy?
aza 11 21:48:44 <ga>	get paid
aza 11 21:49:32 <Alster>	oh you need to tell me about those applicances one day, ga
aza 11 21:49:44 <ga>	:)
aza 11 21:50:33 <ga>	maybe the regular expressions would match the txopi's requirements, about filtering logs
aza 11 21:50:58 <Alster>	i'd think it would, at least that'S part of the game
aza 11 21:51:15 <Alster>	ga: are you into logcheck?
aza 11 21:51:24 <Alster>	ga: and would you like to take part in the skill sharing sessions then? since I think you didn't state this so clearly so far?
aza 11 21:51:40 <ga>	it sounds me familiar.. but I have to say no
aza 11 21:52:14 <ga>	I'm pretty busy actually .. :/
aza 11 21:52:16 <Alster>	it's not neccessarily about yes or no, you can take part in some sessions and not others if you don't have the time.
aza 11 21:52:53 <ga>	oks, that's what I wnt to say hehe
aza 11 21:53:42 <Alster>	:)
aza 11 21:54:03 <ga>	for the moment I can't take part, but I'll follow the sessions and I'l see if I can take part
aza 11 21:54:19 <Alster>	ga: if you can estimate your availability in the upcoming week, please see the channel topic
aza 11 21:54:29 <Alster>	ok, next agenda topic?
aza 11 21:54:49 <Alster>	    *  Next meeting It's always good to plan this early. Please have your calendar ready. 
aza 11 21:55:46 <Alster>	i had already announced that we should meet again on friday. we have another option to meet on sunday. we can skip the friday meeting and have the one on sunday happen instead if friday seems to early. what do people think?
aza 11 21:55:49 <harcesz>	-> decider!
aza 11 21:55:56 <txopi>	next week i'll be really bussy. this one too but next one will be a nightmare for me, so i prefer to jump a week
aza 11 21:56:14 <Didleth>	I thing friday and sunday is ok for me
aza 11 21:56:18 <harcesz>	friday would be slightly better for me, but I can adjust
aza 11 21:56:39 <txopi>	Alster, i have changed my plans. sunday late or nothing
aza 11 21:56:48 <txopi>	friday is also better for me
aza 11 21:57:26 <harcesz>	oh, if it's this friday, either of them two, sry I meant next friday/sunday
aza 11 21:57:29 <Alster>	txopi: have you updated the decider accordingly?
aza 11 21:57:39 <txopi>	nop
aza 11 21:57:44 <txopi>	wait
aza 11 21:58:16 <Alster>	txopi: do not click on 'delete'
aza 11 21:58:27 <txopi>	i have to vote again in the same place?
aza 11 21:58:32 *	txopi is lost
aza 11 21:58:41 <Didleth>	Txopi yes
aza 11 21:58:44 <Alster>	instead, put your name on top (same name as last time) and vote again in the same place
aza 11 21:58:51 <Didleth>	I did it
aza 11 21:58:55 <Alster>	i _think_ this shoudl work
aza 11 21:58:56 <Alster>	ok
aza 11 21:59:02 <Didleth>	add just Txopi not txopi or something like tjis
aza 11 21:59:05 <txopi>	you cleaned the votes? how?
aza 11 21:59:22 <Didleth>	txopi: not celan votes - you clean all decieder ;P
aza 11 21:59:31 <txopi>	ok
aza 11 21:59:41 <Alster>	please don't do that ;-)
aza 11 21:59:54 <Didleth>	i mean - you could celan all decider by traing to celan your votes ;-)
aza 11 22:00:15 *	Didleth hates english ;]
aza 11 22:00:40 *	Alster hates headaches, fetching aspirine.
aza 11 22:00:54 <Alster>	someone else please continue the meeting facilitation
aza 11 22:01:15 <txopi>	Didleth!
aza 11 22:01:54 <harcesz>	Didleth!
aza 11 22:02:10 <Didleth>	ok, I'm looking for wiki-topics in my firefox-zakladki
aza 11 22:02:42 <harcesz>	hint - Short overview on the current situation regarding the recent upgrades (Alster) 
aza 11 22:02:54 <Didleth>	but..we didn't decided the termin who is ok for all yet
aza 11 22:03:04 <harcesz>	did we make a decision re next meeting?
aza 11 22:03:37 <Didleth>	so friday this week and sunday this week are not ok?
aza 11 22:04:39 <txopi>	i voted
aza 11 22:04:48 <txopi>	my agenda is horribly full
aza 11 22:04:56 <Alster>	for me friday AND sunday are ok, if it's not too much for you.
aza 11 22:05:14 <Alster>	thanks txopi 
aza 11 22:05:51 <harcesz>	wut?! voting with a nick errases all other votes from that nick so I just lost this weeks vote, but I'm always free if needed anyway
aza 11 22:06:39 <Alster>	:-/
aza 11 22:06:43 <Alster>	i didn't know that
aza 11 22:06:56 <Alster>	the decider is not really perfect, yet
aza 11 22:07:12 <Didleth>	lol - I voted 3 time
aza 11 22:07:23 <harcesz>	not a problem for me, really ;]
aza 11 22:08:06 <Didleth>	harcesz: vote as Har_cesz
aza 11 22:08:29 <Alster>	so txopi, since you would not be able to attend the meeting on sunday: you voted 'no!' there, does this mean you would prefer that no meeting should take place this upcoming sunday?
aza 11 22:08:44 <txopi>	Decider's version is 3.13, almost 3.14 :-)
aza 11 22:09:03 <txopi>	mmmh
aza 11 22:09:30 <txopi>	no, you can join and share your skills :-)
aza 11 22:09:44 <Didleth>	maybe, it will be easer to vote there on irc?
aza 11 22:09:50 *	txopi is writing about Bash in a note apart
aza 11 22:09:51 <Alster>	txopi: actually, you DO have time this sunday, i mised it up, sorry
aza 11 22:09:58 <Alster>	miXed
aza 11 22:10:01 <Didleth>	synday - not ok
aza 11 22:10:13 <Didleth>	friday - not ok fory you harcesz, right?
aza 11 22:10:20 <Didleth>	and saturday this week?
aza 11 22:10:43 <txopi>	ouch, i voted wrong in the Decider :-/
aza 11 22:10:47 <txopi>	what a mess
aza 11 22:10:52 <Alster>	haha
aza 11 22:10:52 <harcesz>	Didleth: all ok - 21st
aza 11 22:11:03 <harcesz>	(minus 21st of this month)
aza 11 22:11:28 <Didleth>	harcesz: i ment 13st
aza 11 22:11:43 <harcesz>	and now - a bunch of geeks with access to hi-end software decides next months timing for half an hour :P
aza 11 22:11:45 <txopi>	Alster, i can't this sunday unless we meet very late
aza 11 22:11:53 <harcesz>	Didleth: pasuje mi wszystko poza 21wszym 
aza 11 22:12:13 <Didleth>	aha - so friday 13 would be ok?
aza 11 22:12:41 <Didleth>	txopi: and this friday?
aza 11 22:13:31 <txopi>	this friday i can just at 17:00 because i have to go out later
aza 11 22:13:54 <Didleth>	I can only 19.00 and later
aza 11 22:14:07 <txopi>	he he
aza 11 22:14:08 <Alster>	Friday, 13. Nov 09, 19.00 CET was the meeting time we had agreed on (per the decider) so far.
aza 11 22:14:18 <txopi>	ok
aza 11 22:14:21 <txopi>	no problem
aza 11 22:14:44 <txopi>	you can meet this time and i will join the next time
aza 11 22:14:47 <Didleth>	so friday 19.00? ga Hey_neken how about you?
aza 11 22:14:47 <Alster>	and since we'll start wit things didleth will eb very interested in (I hope) and txopi not so much, I personally suggest to keep 19.00
aza 11 22:15:06 <harcesz>	ok
aza 11 22:15:16 <txopi>	oh my god
aza 11 22:15:21 <txopi>	i am very sorry
aza 11 22:15:31 <txopi>	i'm saying all wrong!
aza 11 22:15:42 <txopi>	this friday i can at any hour!
aza 11 22:15:45 <Didleth>	txopi: which god? alster or zap.? you said you have two ;
aza 11 22:15:47 <Didleth>	D
aza 11 22:15:53 <txopi>	oh my root!
aza 11 22:15:59 <harcesz>	lol
aza 11 22:16:09 <txopi>	xDD
aza 11 22:16:21 <Alster>	okay, so we keep Friday, 13. Nov 09, 19.00 CET. what about the next meeting after that?
aza 11 22:16:25 <txopi>	i am politheist ;-P
aza 11 22:16:38 <Didleth>	Alster: but friday is not ok to txopi
aza 11 22:16:51 <Alster>	Didleth: yes it is: <txopi> this friday i can at any hour!
aza 11 22:16:59 <txopi>	:-S
aza 11 22:17:11 <txopi>	this friday is ok for me
aza 11 22:17:14 <Didleth>	harcesz: any means 'zadna' czy 'kazda'?
aza 11 22:17:23 <harcesz>	oba :]
aza 11 22:17:27 <Didleth>	-_-
aza 11 22:17:35 <Alster>	hehe, english sucks
aza 11 22:17:35 <Didleth>	tzn txopiemu pasuje, jo?
aza 11 22:17:40 <txopi>	^_^
aza 11 22:17:45 <Didleth>	alster: genau :]
aza 11 22:17:49 <harcesz>	any has two translations to polish 1) none 2) any 
aza 11 22:18:08 <harcesz>	thou the confusion
aza 11 22:18:11 <harcesz>	ok, lets move on
aza 11 22:18:20 <Alster>	next meeting we'll have in esperanto (I just need to learn it yet)
aza 11 22:18:28 <harcesz>	can we decide the meeting after on the next meeting?
aza 11 22:18:30 <Alster>	<Alster> okay, so we keep Friday, 13. Nov 09, 19.00 CET. what about the next meeting after that?
aza 11 22:18:33 <Didleth>	Short overview on the current situation regarding the recent upgrades (Alster) 
aza 11 22:18:35 <ga>	me impossible on friday
aza 11 22:18:42 <txopi>	any's meaning is different in function of the positions in the sentence
aza 11 22:18:44 <ga>	ops, omg, what a lag
aza 11 22:18:53 <ga>	forget it.. :P
aza 11 22:18:54 <Didleth>	Alster: well... in this case I prefer to learn english ;D
aza 11 22:19:06 <txopi>	the translation of any to all the languages is 1) none 2) any
aza 11 22:19:25 <harcesz>	ga: so your ok with this friday or not?
aza 11 22:19:36 <Didleth>	ok, so the meting after next meeting
aza 11 22:20:29 <ga>	harcesz: no for friday
aza 11 22:20:48 <txopi>	my availability is easy for next week. no availability at all until friday. and on friday just at 17:00
aza 11 22:20:57 <Alster>	ga: do you want us not to meet this friday so you don't miss anything?
aza 11 22:21:21 <txopi>	saturday and sunday i can both at any hour
aza 11 22:21:24 <ga>	nono Alster , I will take a look at the logs
aza 11 22:21:31 <Alster>	ok, thanks ga
aza 11 22:21:40 <Didleth>	txopi: well, in my umgekehrt - I can after 19.00 since tuesday, but not from friday and the weekend
aza 11 22:22:02 <txopi>	...
aza 11 22:22:10 <txopi>	this is difficult!
aza 11 22:22:18 <Alster>	that's why there is the decider
aza 11 22:22:23 <Didleth>	but wait, I will check my train
aza 11 22:23:35 <Didleth>	maybe sunday at teh evening (22.00 or sometihing) but in case of polish train ... ;> it can be 24.00 ;D
aza 11 22:24:07 <Didleth>	but if its ok for veryone, I can read logs and ask harcesz if I will not understand something, it its ok for you harcesz
aza 11 22:24:27 <txopi>	i think we are making a too big effort to join. can't we jump next week? it would be great for me...
aza 11 22:24:33 <harcesz>	Alster: maybe lets really decide that on the next meeting?
aza 11 22:25:23 <Alster>	harcesz: i doubt it will be any easier then. but i'm fine with rescheduling the question when to meet again to this friday.
aza 11 22:25:38 <Alster>	what do the others think about harcesz' suggestion?
aza 11 22:26:08 <Didleth>	I thing we can decide on friday
aza 11 22:26:21 <txopi>	i support Didleth 
aza 11 22:26:40 <Alster>	ok, so we decide on friday 
aza 11 22:26:46 <txopi>	ok
aza 11 22:26:49 <Didleth>	ok, the next topic is 
aza 11 22:27:11 <Didleth>	Short overview on the current situation regarding the recent upgrades (Alster) 
aza 11 22:27:33 <Alster>	since it is somewhat related, shall we first discuss whether we use we.riseup.net?
aza 11 22:28:23 <Alster>	Didleth: can you give this a go if you'd still like to suggest it?
aza 11 22:28:55 <harcesz>	is there any need for that in your opinion Alster
aza 11 22:28:56 <harcesz>	?
aza 11 22:29:30 *	harcesz loves crabgrass but soon he'll start using it to make his coffee...
aza 11 22:30:03 <Alster>	harcesz: depends, the decider in CG (crabgrass / we.riseup.net) is said to be more advanced, and that would help
aza 11 22:30:36 <harcesz>	might come in handy for the logs as well
aza 11 22:30:51 <harcesz>	not exactly radical transparency thou
aza 11 22:30:51 <Alster>	on the other hand i'm a bit worried since it's not very accessible to people who do not have an account on it
aza 11 22:31:03 <Alster>	right
aza 11 22:31:07 <harcesz>	exactly
aza 11 22:31:25 <Didleth>	well...
aza 11 22:31:37 <Didleth>	I thiong we can create an group on crabagg
aza 11 22:31:40 <Alster>	txopi: do you have an opinion on this?
aza 11 22:31:54 <Didleth>	and have there our logs and another important things
aza 11 22:31:58 <Didleth>	make decider etc
aza 11 22:33:10 <Alster>	ga? Hey_neken ?
aza 11 22:33:42 <Alster>	oh Heyneken said s/he wouldnt take part, so.. sorry about htis.
aza 11 22:33:52 <harcesz>	Alster: let's use decision making on CB to decide if we should use it ;]
aza 11 22:34:07 <Alster>	hah
aza 11 22:34:13 <Alster>	you're welcome to set it up
aza 11 22:34:31 <Alster>	it seems we have a decision for CG at this point
aza 11 22:34:34 <txopi>	i have an opinion
aza 11 22:34:55 <Alster>	txopi: that's good. do you want to share it, too?
aza 11 22:35:01 <txopi>	i have a crabgrass user and as i told in the mailing list i think is a grat tool
aza 11 22:35:02 <Didleth>	;D
aza 11 22:35:09 <txopi>	:-D
aza 11 22:35:14 <Alster>	ok, let's use it then
aza 11 22:35:14 <txopi>	great tool
aza 11 22:35:40 <Alster>	Didleth: since you sggested it in the first place, would you volunteer to set it up for us?
aza 11 22:35:48 *	harcesz will set up the group
aza 11 22:35:56 <txopi>	i don't remember exactly but you can send messages between userrs like elgg/facebook
aza 11 22:36:14 <txopi>	you can join groups like elgg/facebook
aza 11 22:36:17 <Didleth>	Alster: I could...but harcesz was the first ;]
aza 11 22:36:23 <Alster>	ok, can everyone please state their user names on CG here so we do not add someone we do not want to add?
aza 11 22:36:24 <txopi>	you can create subgroups
aza 11 22:36:40 <txopi>	and you also can create wiki pages
aza 11 22:36:47 *	harcesz will have to reboot his router and modem before he can do anything, brb
aza 11 22:37:00 <txopi>	this pages, if i'm not wrong, are stored crypted
aza 11 22:37:04 <txopi>	so it is very secure
aza 11 22:37:09 <txopi>	BUT
aza 11 22:37:37 <txopi>	we are already using a mailing list, we use this irc channel and we have a wiki
aza 11 22:38:14 <txopi>	so i think that crabgrass doesn't give to us anything important
aza 11 22:38:39 <txopi>	i'm sure they are things, but few
aza 11 22:38:42 <txopi>	SO
aza 11 22:39:12 *	harcesz1 (~harcesz@xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx) has joined #kosmos
aza 11 22:39:13 <harcesz1>	can I has backlog plonx?
aza 11 22:39:20 <txopi>	if we want to know this great tool that is free software, is developed by activist, etc. is ok for me
aza 11 22:39:32 *	harcesz has quit (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by harcesz1)))
aza 11 22:39:40 *	harcesz1 is now known as harcesz
aza 11 22:39:43 *	Alster will pass the backlog to harcesz 
aza 11 22:39:52 *	ChanServ gives channel operator status to harcesz
aza 11 22:39:55 <txopi>	but that's something alternative to the kosmos issue
aza 11 22:39:59 <txopi>	END.
aza 11 22:41:14 <Alster>	so, by what i can tell, we seem to have 1 PR CG, 3 undecided
aza 11 22:41:21 <Alster>	that still means we should use it
aza 11 22:41:38 <harcesz>	k
aza 11 22:41:40 <txopi>	1 PR CG?
aza 11 22:41:41 <Alster>	PRO, not PR
aza 11 22:41:49 <txopi>	ah ok
aza 11 22:41:54 <Alster>	1 PRO crabgrass, 3 undecided
aza 11 22:42:04 <Alster>	maybe it's actually more than 1 PRO ;-)
aza 11 22:42:23 <Alster>	your login names on crabgrass are?
aza 11 22:42:30 <Alster>	* alster
aza 11 22:42:34 <Didleth>	*didleth
aza 11 22:42:38 <harcesz>	*harcesz
aza 11 22:42:50 <Alster>	txopi: ?
aza 11 22:43:06 *	harcesz still cant connect to riseup :/
aza 11 22:43:07 <txopi>	i have heard that crabgrass has a functionality to help in consensus decision, but i don't know it
aza 11 22:43:12 <txopi>	txopi = txopi
aza 11 22:43:42 <Alster>	about the mailing list, i'd like to keep what we have, since CG does not provide a full replacement for a mailing list in my opinion
aza 11 22:44:09 <Didleth>	Alster: +1
aza 11 22:44:15 <Alster>	I also think we should always send important things through the mailing list, whether we use _this_ or the chat in CG
aza 11 22:44:27 <harcesz>	+1
aza 11 22:44:37 <harcesz>	(chat in CG is buggy as hell)
aza 11 22:44:49 <Alster>	someone will need to move the docs.indymedia.org wiki page(s) to the crabgrass wiki. any volunteers?
aza 11 22:45:15 <Didleth>	Alster: ALL?
aza 11 22:45:16 <txopi>	Didleth!
aza 11 22:45:24 <txopi>	xD
aza 11 22:45:38 <Alster>	Didleth: hehe, no just the ones related to the skill sharing, and possibly the ones related to kosmos
aza 11 22:45:51 <harcesz>	makes sense
aza 11 22:46:00 <Alster>	once that is done, links to the wiki pages on crabgrass should be placed on docs.indymedia.org
aza 11 22:46:15 <Alster>	so other people can find this information, too
aza 11 22:46:21 <Didleth>	Alster: so ok, I can do this next week, when I receive my wiki-ccont - but somen will havbe to tell me which genau sites
aza 11 22:46:36 <Alster>	https://docs.indymedia.org/Sysadmin/KosmosSkillSharing 
aza 11 22:46:53 <Alster>	possibly: https://docs.indymedia.org/Sysadmin/KosmosInfo
aza 11 22:46:59 <harcesz>	I can move it, just after I manage to get into riseup again
aza 11 22:47:17 <Alster>	possibly: https://docs.indymedia.org/Sysadmin/KosmosUpgrade200909
aza 11 22:47:43 <Alster>	possibly: https://docs.indymedia.org/Sysadmin/KosmosSubotnikNov06
aza 11 22:48:17 <Alster>	possibly: any EH and PL tech pages currently found on docs.indymedia.org
aza 11 22:48:32 <Alster>	that'S up to the two collectives, please decide for yourselves
aza 11 22:49:33 <harcesz>	k, so thats done, I will set up the group, inform everybody and migrate any relevant info
aza 11 22:49:39 <Alster>	let's say harcesz and Didleth set us up on CG and decide which pages to move and do it?
aza 11 22:49:42 <txopi>	EH tech pages are really old, don't lose time with them
aza 11 22:50:08 <harcesz>	k
aza 11 22:50:17 <Didleth>	and what about pl - some sites just don't worikng any more
aza 11 22:50:36 <Didleth>	hmm...maybe we will do in that way:
aza 11 22:50:52 <Didleth>	I and harcesz will meve allgemeine kosmos-sites etc
aza 11 22:51:14 <Didleth>	and every group - EH and PL - will move their ones?
aza 11 22:51:24 <Didleth>	*move not meve
aza 11 22:51:36 <txopi>	is ok for me
aza 11 22:51:40 <Didleth>	*their owns
aza 11 22:51:53 <harcesz>	ok, so thats agreed, lets move one
aza 11 22:51:55 <harcesz>	*on
aza 11 22:53:49 <txopi>	if ga or hey_neken want to create an acount on CG they can do? i mean, the registration is free?
aza 11 22:54:04 <harcesz>	yes, free and open
aza 11 22:54:24 <harcesz>	i'll set the group to autojoin
aza 11 22:54:28 <txopi>	ok
aza 11 22:55:27 <txopi>	the wiki pages moved to CG will can be seen without login as now?
aza 11 22:57:02 <Didleth>	txopi: can be seen if it make it publish
aza 11 22:57:11 <Didleth>	but can't be voten/edidet
aza 11 22:58:10 <Alster>	i think we should make it all public by default (there can be exceptions but only if neccessary), so others can find out what is going on
aza 11 22:58:21 <Alster>	...and possibly learn from what we will document
aza 11 22:58:34 *	txopi agree
aza 11 22:58:42 <Alster>	(that's my personal opinion, your's may differ)
aza 11 22:58:52 <harcesz>	agrees
aza 11 22:59:15 <Alster>	great. :) are we ready to move on to the next topic, yet?
aza 11 22:59:51 <Alster>	Didleth, txopi , harcesz , ga?
aza 11 23:00:00 <harcesz>	yes
aza 11 23:00:04 <txopi>	go ahead
aza 11 23:00:15 <Alster>	okay, about the next agenda item:
aza 11 23:00:16 <Alster>	     *  Short overview on the current situation regarding the recent upgrades (Alster) 
aza 11 23:00:16 <Alster>	Zapata and I have upgrade Debian on Kosmos from Debian Sarge (version 3.1) to Debian Etch (version 4.0),and gain from Debian Etch to Debian Lenny (version 5.0). This is the current stable Debian version.
aza 11 23:00:16 <Alster>	Part of these upgrades were kernel upgrades, so we needed to reboot, which luckily worked, and upgrades of the Postgresql database cluster, tomcat, and the way the apache webserver talks to tomcat. Those last three things were a bit tricky. Some more things were done, most of all cleaning up old user accounts (this will be finished by Nov 15th) and old IMCs which are no longer hosted on kosmos.
aza 11 23:00:17 <Alster>	I have taken notes on what I have done here: https://docs.indymedia.org/Sysadmin/KosmosUpgrade200909
aza 11 23:00:19 <Alster>	Please look over this and ask any questions you may have about it, now or later. Please do not ask in the channel but send private message or email to the mailing list, so we can go on with the meeting.
aza 11 23:02:16 *	harcesz applauds
aza 11 23:02:17 <Alster>	I think you are all following the mailing list so you will know there is a problem with the hard disk drives which IMCs EH and PL will need to solve with Nadir.
aza 11 23:02:58 <Alster>	I also reported that Nadir would like to come to a new agreement with your IMCs regarding continued hosting of your sites and the kosmos server hardware
aza 11 23:03:14 <Alster>	thanks harcesz  ;-)
aza 11 23:03:42 <Alster>	this is pretty much all i can say about this right now, let's move on to the next agenda item, unless you have questions which shoudl really be discusse dnow
aza 11 23:04:02 <Didleth>	Alster: I belive we can move on
aza 11 23:04:55 <Didleth>	btw Alster a stupid question but... If mir works in kosmos, it is the only one which can wrok in kosmos, right?
aza 11 23:05:00 <txopi>	nothing to add. just "thank you" one more time :-)
aza 11 23:05:27 <Alster>	Didleth: are you asking whether you can run a different CMS next to Mir on kosmos?
aza 11 23:05:33 <harcesz>	yep big massive thank you Alster
aza 11 23:05:36 <Didleth>	Alster: tes
aza 11 23:05:39 <Didleth>	yes
aza 11 23:05:56 <Didleth>	I suppose no but I want to be sure
aza 11 23:06:13 <Alster>	:) I'm glad Zapata and I could help you all, and sorry again for the outages.
aza 11 23:06:30 <Alster>	Didleth: Yes, this is possible.
aza 11 23:06:42 <Didleth>	hmmm... Alster but drupal couldn't be?
aza 11 23:07:03 <harcesz>	I guess thats more of a question for nadir
aza 11 23:07:42 <Didleth>	ok - so I ask Nadir in one of human-langauge :]
aza 11 23:08:59 <Alster>	Didleth: drupal could be run next to mir on kosmos. But drupal requires more RAM, since it's based on PHP, which is a RAM abuser. Well, Mir is, too, but if you have both, then it's twice as much.
aza 11 23:09:34 <txopi>	[off-topic] this saturday we have an all day meeting at indyeh and i will propose to migrate to drupal
aza 11 23:09:34 <Alster>	nadir would need to decide whether it's ok for you to continue using this hardware. and it seems they are not.
aza 11 23:09:46 <Didleth>	yhm, ok
aza 11 23:10:04 <Alster>	but you probably know more about hits than i do by now
aza 11 23:10:13 <Didleth>	wait wiat wait
aza 11 23:10:18 <Alster>	which is a good way to move to the next agenda item
aza 11 23:10:21 <Didleth>	txopi: dou you want migrate to rupal to?
aza 11 23:10:42 <txopi>	i think that the cms and the server are different issues
aza 11 23:10:59 <Didleth>	ok, we will talk about this later
aza 11 23:11:09 *	Alster agrees with txopi
aza 11 23:11:16 <txopi>	Didleth, i said that is what i'm going to propose
aza 11 23:11:34 <txopi>	but i think kosmos is too old for mir and for every thing
aza 11 23:11:44 <harcesz>	txopi +1
aza 11 23:11:51 <Didleth>	yhm, I understand
aza 11 23:12:06 <harcesz>	anyways, seems both imc's are/might be aiming to migrate to drupal soon
aza 11 23:12:34 <Alster>	that's good, Zapata will be happy to hear about it
aza 11 23:12:41 <harcesz>	:]
aza 11 23:13:08 <txopi>	at indyeh we have a crazy little 2indymedia revolution" project, but nobody to execute it...
aza 11 23:13:15 <Alster>	nadir maybe not as much, since they don't like PHP, but it's probably fine for them when you administrate your own server, which you're just starting to do.
aza 11 23:13:32 <harcesz>	*execute during it - fix'd ;] 
aza 11 23:13:48 <Alster>	are we ready for the next ageenda item?
aza 11 23:13:52 <harcesz>	yes
aza 11 23:14:00 <Alster>	    *  Short overview on the current situation regarding the continued hosting of kosmos with Nadir (IMC Euskalherria and Poland) 
aza 11 23:14:11 <Alster>	can you report?
aza 11 23:14:15 <txopi>	i personally would like to move from mir to drupal (and learn drupal) but at the same time leave kosmos beause is too old
aza 11 23:14:34 *	harcesz knows nothing atm
aza 11 23:14:47 <Didleth>	well
aza 11 23:14:57 <txopi>	but if we do that, we will have to make sysadmin work in another machine and as i told the is nobody here that has time&knoledge to to that tasks
aza 11 23:15:03 <Didleth>	nadir nas proposed us to take us in domU
aza 11 23:15:18 <txopi>	domU?
aza 11 23:15:23 <Didleth>	we have agree but with some questions - he didn't answer yet
aza 11 23:15:49 <Didleth>	well, if I asked wiki, the told me
aza 11 23:16:07 <Alster>	txopi: The main purpose of the skill sharing is that there will be three or five more people who can actually do the system administration.
aza 11 23:16:10 <Didleth>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DomU
aza 11 23:16:30 <Alster>	DomU is a virtual private server
aza 11 23:16:48 <Alster>	that's a server within another server so to say
aza 11 23:16:56 <txopi>	Alster, i know. that's wy i'm trying that more basque people participate on them
aza 11 23:17:09 <txopi>	ah ok, a virtual server
aza 11 23:17:19 <txopi>	i know what it is :-)
aza 11 23:17:29 <Didleth>	Alster: is that what I found in wikipedia, right?
aza 11 23:17:41 <Alster>	you can have one operating sytem (like debian) on top running oin the real server, and have more 'virtual debians' running below that.
aza 11 23:17:49 <Alster>	Didleth: yes, perfectly right
aza 11 23:18:10 <ga>	that would be suitable for kosmos?
aza 11 23:18:30 <Didleth>	txopi: didn't you receive any information from nadir?
aza 11 23:18:35 <Alster>	DomU is how the 'Xen' server virtualization system calls their "guest systems", i.e. the virtual servers.
aza 11 23:19:07 <txopi>	Didleth, i don't think so. perhaps i didn't understand it or didn't pai atention
aza 11 23:19:16 <Alster>	the main operating system running closer to the bare hardware is called Dom0
aza 11 23:19:19 <Didleth>	:-/
aza 11 23:19:29 <txopi>	aha
aza 11 23:19:38 <Didleth>	txopi: and did you cantact them?
aza 11 23:19:50 <txopi>	Didleth, no
aza 11 23:20:02 <txopi>	i never talk to nadir
aza 11 23:20:04 <Didleth>	whell... maybe you should?
aza 11 23:20:18 <Didleth>	it was on the list I belive
aza 11 23:20:32 <txopi>	i'm sorry but i don't understand the situation
aza 11 23:20:37 <Didleth>	we - pl and eh - should contact to nadir becuse they have some propose to us
aza 11 23:20:46 <txopi>	can't you be the kosmos' contact at nadir?
aza 11 23:21:04 <Didleth>	I? well, I can
aza 11 23:21:18 <Didleth>	I nobodyt have nothing against this
aza 11 23:21:27 <Didleth>	*if
aza 11 23:21:27 <txopi>	ga: i think kosmos is too old and too weak to run a virtual server
aza 11 23:22:02 <Alster>	txopi: Didleth is right. I asked both PL and EH to talk to Nadir, the ones who host your server, since both your collectives are hosted on the server and you will need to find a solution with them for your continued hosting.
aza 11 23:22:03 <txopi>	i don't have!
aza 11 23:22:39 <Alster>	txopi: of course you can find an agreement between the two collectives and have a common spokesperson for your two collectives, Nadir will appreciate it.
aza 11 23:23:03 <Didleth>	txopi: but if you not agree for domU - should I write it to nadir?
aza 11 23:23:27 <Didleth>	they said it would be easer to migrate to domU than to the new discs
aza 11 23:23:53 <txopi>	can they vertualize kosmos as it is right now os we don't have to reinstall all from the scratch?
aza 11 23:24:23 <Alster>	ga: can you say what your question was about exactly? Are you asking whether a virtual server can be setup on the current kosmos hardware, or whether it's a good idea to do this, or something else?
aza 11 23:24:48 <Alster>	txopi: yes
aza 11 23:25:04 <Didleth>	And first you should contact nadir that I agree I contact in the name of kosmos - I meaned, it would seems authoritary if I say something in your name but he will not see that you are agree with this
aza 11 23:25:24 <txopi>	Alster, yes what? the first part ot the second one?
aza 11 23:25:27 <ga>	sorry Alster , I mean that maybe run a virtual server on kosmos is too heavy for the hardware
aza 11 23:25:42 <ga>	for the current one
aza 11 23:25:42 <Alster>	you would be given ssh access to another debian lenny server, which is the virtual server/the DomU, which is hosted on a different hardware (i.e a different physical server)
aza 11 23:25:53 <ga>	aah
aza 11 23:25:56 <Didleth>	txopi: I don't now ecactly, but our disc are dying and we wll have to buy the new one
aza 11 23:26:11 <ga>	ok, I understand now
aza 11 23:26:18 <Didleth>	I asked nadir or it's chiper to migrate to domU but they didn't answer yet
aza 11 23:26:54 <txopi>	the situation is bad, i know. so i agree to move to domU
aza 11 23:27:23 <txopi>	Didleth, i will apreciate if you say to nadir in eh's name that we are agree to move
aza 11 23:27:43 <harcesz>	ok [solved] :]
aza 11 23:27:53 <txopi>	but i just wan't to understand what the move means
aza 11 23:28:09 <Didleth>	ok, so I can write to nadir EH agree migrate to domU too, right?
aza 11 23:28:22 <Alster>	txopi: yes, nadir can setup a DomU for you which has the same basic Debian system ans you have now on kosmos. You (or we, rather) could then copy the specific configuration from kosmos to the new virtual server. Once this is done and everything works fine on the new server, the old server (kosmos) could be shut down and the new server would take over.
aza 11 23:28:24 <txopi>	you can vertualize a machine like in vmware or you have to install all from the scratch?
aza 11 23:28:34 <txopi>	Didleth: right
aza 11 23:28:37 <Didleth>	but asking him about more...szczegółów ;D
aza 11 23:28:57 <Didleth>	txopi: ok, will do it today
aza 11 23:29:21 <Alster>	txopi: a xen DomU is comparable to a vmware guest.
aza 11 23:29:27 <txopi>	Didleth, yo have 30 minutes. then will be tomorrow :-)
aza 11 23:29:42 <Alster>	hehe
aza 11 23:29:54 <txopi>	ok i understand
aza 11 23:30:05 <harcesz>	szczegółów = details 
aza 11 23:30:31 <txopi>	we (in fact Alster) will have to copy configuration files, etc. and but the new server working
aza 11 23:31:38 <txopi>	as far as i know, with vmware you can put into a virtual machin all the files of a system that is installed in a hard disc
aza 11 23:31:45 <txopi>	if i'm not wrong...
aza 11 23:31:46 <Alster>	i think there are the following reasons why nadir recommends you move to a DomU: kosmos' disks are broken. kosmos is old, takes a lot of room in their data center, which could be better used by more modern server. kosmos eats power, but the same services could be run on another, already existing server, and not eat so much power there.
aza 11 23:31:57 <Alster>	ideally nadir would have explained those reasons to you.
aza 11 23:32:32 <txopi>	Alster, i already imagine all that reasons. thanks for the explanation
aza 11 23:32:42 <txopi>	i am absolutely agree to move
aza 11 23:32:51 <Alster>	unfortunately nadir do not always respond to emails in the first place, you sometimes need to send your emails more than once.
aza 11 23:33:14 <Alster>	txopi: actually my idea is that we can do the migration from kosmos to the new virtual server together as part of an advanced skill sharing session.
aza 11 23:33:23 <Didleth>	txopi so I should just write ytou agree
aza 11 23:33:34 <txopi>	Alster, wow
aza 11 23:33:39 <Didleth>	or that you agree and ask about more details about this migrtation?
aza 11 23:34:09 <txopi>	Alster, that would be REALLY great
aza 11 23:34:15 <txopi>	Didleth, go ahead
aza 11 23:34:20 <Alster>	txopi: if you have the same operating system, it's really just about copying files from one place to the other.
aza 11 23:35:05 <Alster>	next agenda item?
aza 11 23:35:14 <txopi>	yes, but you have to set cron, postgress, java files, mir, apache configiguration... that's a lot for me!
aza 11 23:35:21 <Alster>	we are 2h35m into the meeting by the way
aza 11 23:35:37 <Alster>	txopi: that's right, it needs to be planned, and you have to be selective.
aza 11 23:35:46 <Didleth>	Hi,
aza 11 23:35:46 <Didleth>	ich habe mit der Menschen aus IMC-EH gesprochen und sie sind zugestimmen fuer kosmos eine domU aufzusetzen. Sie wollen aber etwas mehr davon und von der Migration-Prozess wissen. 
aza 11 23:35:46 *	txopi agrees to bit te next agenda item
aza 11 23:36:19 <Didleth>	hehe, txopi O will send it today as I said ;P
aza 11 23:36:21 <txopi>	i don't understand anything
aza 11 23:36:22 <Didleth>	I
aza 11 23:36:35 <Didleth>	but Nadir understand ;D
aza 11 23:36:38 <txopi>	ok
aza 11 23:36:39 <Didleth>	alster... could you?
aza 11 23:36:39 <Alster>	Didleth: this can be misunderstood by nadir in the way that you expct them to do the migration for you.
aza 11 23:37:09 <Alster>	Didleth: but it's good aside of this.
aza 11 23:37:27 <Alster>	Didleth: i could do what?
aza 11 23:37:30 <Didleth>	So..I shouldn't ask about migration?
aza 11 23:38:03 <Alster>	Didleth: well, you could just ask about it in a different way, or state that we will do the migration once we have access
aza 11 23:38:16 <harcesz>	can we discuss the right email form on prv and move on with the agenda?
aza 11 23:38:27 <Alster>	sounds good to me
aza 11 23:38:38 <Didleth>	Ok, I can try to translate it... I talkad to people from imc-eh and they agreed to have domU, but they want to know something more about this and about migration
aza 11 23:38:41 <Didleth>	will be ok?
aza 11 23:38:43 <Alster>	do we move it to private Didleth ?
aza 11 23:39:14 <Alster>	actuall this sounds good, Didleth 
aza 11 23:40:07 <Didleth>	so - not asking about migration
aza 11 23:40:07 <txopi>	Didleth, if we (EH) want to know something more about this, we will ask it
aza 11 23:40:19 <Didleth>	anly to say, we - imc-pl and imc-eh are agree
aza 11 23:40:52 <txopi>	but what we want to know more?
aza 11 23:41:24 <txopi>	they create the virtual machine with debian lenny and create a user with root permissions
aza 11 23:41:33 <txopi>	then we do the rest
aza 11 23:41:44 <txopi>	am i losing something?
aza 11 23:43:22 <Alster>	i think that's the basic process, right.
aza 11 23:43:29 <harcesz>	....
aza 11 23:43:42 <Alster>	i can explain the virtualization background  to you.
aza 11 23:43:59 <Alster>	i think nadir could not add much to that
aza 11 23:44:09 <Alster>	harcesz: what's up? 
aza 11 23:44:14 <txopi>	Didleth, so i think that you should remove this from the message you are going to sned: "but they want to know something more about this and about migration"
aza 11 23:44:16 <Alster>	next agenda item?
aza 11 23:44:24 <harcesz>	just suggesting that this meeting is taking forever
aza 11 23:44:35 <Didleth>	ok
aza 11 23:44:43 <harcesz>	(no offence, it's just that the longer it goes the less productive it will be)
aza 11 23:44:54 <Alster>	well, itÄs the first one, we have a lot to talk about. but yes, we should speed up.
aza 11 23:45:00 <txopi>	Alster, is ok for now. we will speak in other moment
aza 11 23:45:13 <Alster>	Upcoming Skill Sharing sessions
aza 11 23:45:13 <Alster>	    * Which sessions do we actually want/need?
aza 11 23:45:13 <Alster>	      Please add your suggestions to KosmosSkillSharing.
aza 11 23:45:13 <Alster>	    * Which sessions will be next? 
aza 11 23:45:36 <Alster>	KosmosSkillSharing: https://docs.indymedia.org/Sysadmin/KosmosSkillSharing
aza 11 23:45:48 <Didleth>	which session you meanted which topic?
aza 11 23:46:05 <Alster>	https://docs.indymedia.org/Sysadmin/KosmosSkillSharing#Topics
aza 11 23:46:09 <harcesz>	Alster: my guess would be that at best we got a basic idea of what's involved so it would be better to list 'required skills'
aza 11 23:46:36 <harcesz>	+ we can use the crabgrass voting mechanism to sort out thous
aza 11 23:47:03 <Alster>	harcesz: are you suggesting that we list 'required skills' for each of these skill sharing topics on the wiki?
aza 11 23:47:07 <harcesz>	if i understand 'session' correctly that is
aza 11 23:47:17 <Alster>	session=meeting
aza 11 23:47:40 <Alster>	topic = one of possibly several items to be handled in a session
aza 11 23:47:42 <harcesz>	.. = subject (like php setup, or apache setup?) 
aza 11 23:47:55 <harcesz>	ok, then yes
aza 11 23:48:11 <harcesz>	it's just like listing; php session, apache session, ... 
aza 11 23:48:14 <Alster>	these terms i chose are not perfect ;-)
aza 11 23:48:39 <harcesz>	no worries, if we all strongly believe in them, they will become perfect ;]
aza 11 23:48:47 <Alster>	:)
aza 11 23:49:26 <Alster>	i think we will be able to use the decider to choose the most interesting topics, but some of them are required for others to happen, and thus this may not help us much.
aza 11 23:49:56 <Alster>	the decider does also not helpus in finding the order of processing these topics
aza 11 23:50:23 <harcesz>	well, the type of voting we can do on CB would do that
aza 11 23:50:39 <txopi>	i think that we can do a pack with the most basic ones: bash, screen and commands
aza 11 23:50:56 <harcesz>	as in we could pick the most interesting/needed issues and than just add in the requirements - build the plan that way
aza 11 23:51:13 <harcesz>	yeah, thats 1st for sure
aza 11 23:52:23 *	txopi is tired
aza 11 23:53:37 <txopi>	i propose to share skills on bash, screen and commands on friday and use the tools you prefer to decide how to continue
aza 11 23:53:53 <Alster>	txopi: this sounds great to me
aza 11 23:54:16 <Alster>	txopi: so you do bash on friday?
aza 11 23:54:19 <harcesz>	+1
aza 11 23:54:22 <Alster>	i do screen?
aza 11 23:54:40 <Alster>	and we decide how to go from there on friday?
aza 11 23:54:41 <Didleth>	for me ok
aza 11 23:54:44 <txopi>	i do bash and commands1
aza 11 23:54:57 <Alster>	yeay
aza 11 23:55:05 <Didleth>	screen it's something diffrent that screen-session on irc? ; )
aza 11 23:55:18 <txopi>	who is able to do commands2 and commands3? (me no)
aza 11 23:55:54 <Alster>	me, if noone else
aza 11 23:56:11 <harcesz>	Didleth: same
aza 11 23:56:52 <Didleth>	harcesz: ale tam jest pewnie wiecej do zrobienia niz detached i inne takie? ;] tak sie tylko upewnic chcialm ;]
aza 11 23:58:37 <Alster>	okay, we're almost done then
aza 11 23:59:04 <Alster>	i don't think we'll have a first skill sharing session today, it's much too late
aza 11 23:59:18 <Alster>	but i'd like to do this:
aza 11 23:59:19 <Alster>	    *  Configure /etc/aliases 
aza 11 23:59:47 <Alster>	that'S the file where we can add our email addresses to, and kosmos will send important and not so important information to us
aza 11 23:59:49 *	txopi has slept 8,5 hours last two nights and is almost sleeping in front of the computer
aza 12 00:00:00 <Alster>	some excerpts form the system logs
aza 12 00:00:19 <Alster>	txopi: 5 more miniutes if you can, if not, just read the logs...
aza 12 00:00:31 <txopi>	i can!
aza 12 00:00:59 <Alster>	i'd like to add your email addresses to this file, so that all of you will know what is going on in kosmos
aza 12 00:01:14 <Didleth>	FOR ME OK
aza 12 00:01:16 <txopi>	aha
aza 12 00:01:16 <Alster>	it's about 2 or 3 emails a day
aza 12 00:01:17 <harcesz>	harcesz@xxx.xxx
aza 12 00:01:22 <Didleth>	sorry,, caps lock
aza 12 00:01:27 <Didleth>	didleth@xxx.xxx
aza 12 00:02:00 <txopi>	and in wich servides/daemons?
aza 12 00:02:11 <Alster>	since i administrate more than one server, i use a different email address to receive log files than for general sommunication and mailing lists. you may want to do so, too
aza 12 00:02:13 <txopi>	txopi@xxx.xxx
aza 12 00:02:40 <Alster>	another option is just to sort the incoming emails to a different folder
aza 12 00:02:43 <txopi>	for now i will use the same
aza 12 00:02:56 <Alster>	ok, so i'll add these email addresses
aza 12 00:03:03 <txopi>	Alster, of course i will do that
aza 12 00:03:04 <Alster>	how about you, ga and Hey_neken ?
aza 12 00:03:08 *	Didleth would do but she doesn't know what is a good to create a new-mail ;]
aza 12 00:03:37 <txopi>	a good what?
aza 12 00:03:48 <Alster>	Didleth: do you mean you don't know a good email provider?
aza 12 00:03:59 <Didleth>	blah, sorry my english don't work on this time in nightr ;]
aza 12 00:04:01 <Didleth>	yes alster
aza 12 00:04:22 <Didleth>	but i have filter in thunderbird
aza 12 00:04:33 <Didleth>	so have mostly things on riseup ;]
aza 12 00:05:05 <txopi>	the same for me
aza 12 00:05:24 <Didleth>	every time I try to sent a mail t indymedia list from some free-commercial accont, I'm blocking by blocklist next time ;]
aza 12 00:05:28 <Alster>	aktivix (read their wiki at http://www.aktivix.org , then send email to request@aktivix.org), inventati.org, immmerda.ch is what i can think of right now
aza 12 00:05:32 <txopi>	i work quite well with my e-mail client's filters
aza 12 00:06:01 <Alster>	so i think we're done for today, unless there's anything else?
aza 12 00:06:43 <txopi>	just one question
aza 12 00:07:16 <txopi>	from now, what we have to write in the crabgrass' group and what in the kosmos-sysad mailing list?
aza 12 00:07:30 <Alster>	one more thing: you are welcome to but you don't have to react to these emails right now. it's mostly to get an impression on what is going on on kosmos. we will learn what they mean eactly and how to make them less annoying in the future.
aza 12 00:07:30 *	harcesz sent out invitations on we.riseup.net
aza 12 00:07:41 <txopi>	we are going to keep using this irc
aza 12 00:07:47 <txopi>	and also the mailing list
aza 12 00:07:56 <Alster>	thanks harcesz 
aza 12 00:07:58 <txopi>	we are going to move the wiki contents
aza 12 00:08:18 <Alster>	txopi: i think this is exactly what we agreed on.
aza 12 00:08:30 <harcesz>	migrating tables in wikis might be tricki thou
aza 12 00:09:06 <txopi>	but we talk about telling somethings/messages though CG's group and other tohught mailing list
aza 12 00:09:14 <Alster>	txopi: i think we should always use the mailing list for important communication and decision making (unless we are currently in a meeting), meaning we also need to read it every couple of days, 
aza 12 00:10:16 <txopi>	ok
aza 12 00:10:16 <Alster>	for less important communication, and only communication which is not bound to deadlines, we can continue to use this IRC channel, and optionally the communications provided by CG, too.
aza 12 00:10:24 <Alster>	that's my suggestion
aza 12 00:10:31 <txopi>	i think that the problem is that is don't remember cg very well
aza 12 00:10:36 <Alster>	please state if you think differently
aza 12 00:11:07 <Didleth>	I thing we should list to make descision, and use CB to help-thing
aza 12 00:11:12 <txopi>	cg gives the option to send communications into a group?
aza 12 00:11:18 <Alster>	yes, the memory of cragrass' communication tools is volatile, as is that of IRC
aza 12 00:11:26 <Didleth>	like votes, logs-history etc
aza 12 00:11:32 <txopi>	ok
aza 12 00:11:58 <txopi>	so we are not going to use cg's communications no?
aza 12 00:12:06 <Alster>	we must not expect that everyone will read what we write in CG chat or IRC, or that someone will read CG messages on time
aza 12 00:12:06 <txopi>	just pages
aza 12 00:12:33 <Alster>	if you want reliable communication, use the mailing list.
aza 12 00:12:54 <txopi>	cg messages are like messages between users like in elgg and facebook?
aza 12 00:13:02 <Didleth>	brb
aza 12 00:13:21 <txopi>	or there are messages to a group as a mailing list?
aza 12 00:13:28 <Alster>	txopi: yes, i think so. i think you can also have one-to-many communication, such as newsletters
aza 12 00:13:40 <txopi>	i see
aza 12 00:13:41 <txopi>	ok
aza 12 00:13:59 <txopi>	question answered
aza 12 00:14:05 <txopi>	anything more?
aza 12 00:14:17 <Alster>	but as far as i know you will not get to know you have a new CG message unless you login to CG via https
aza 12 00:14:25 <harcesz>	argh
aza 12 00:14:41 <Alster>	so that sucks from my point of view and makes it useless for communication that matters
aza 12 00:14:42 <harcesz>	anyone knows any wiki markup convertion tools? :]
aza 12 00:14:49 <Alster>	harcesz: ikiwiki
aza 12 00:15:00 <Alster>	but it's not that easy to use
aza 12 00:15:06 <txopi>	Alster: aha
aza 12 00:15:07 <Alster>	there's probably some others, too
aza 12 00:15:37 <Alster>	so... thanks everyone for the GREAT meeting!
aza 12 00:15:56 <Alster>	i'm really happy we talked about all these things
aza 12 00:16:35 <txopi>	me too, because i didn't realized about nadir message
aza 12 00:16:41 <Alster>	and, for a silly movie quote, I have a feeling this can be the beginning of a great freindship
aza 12 00:16:46 <txopi>	and for talking to you all of course!
aza 12 00:17:05 <txopi>	i hope so
aza 12 00:17:15 <harcesz>	:)
aza 12 00:17:50 <harcesz>	thanks Alster for pulling all of that together
aza 12 00:18:38 <txopi>	i will publish logs tomorrow (well, in fact today ;-)
aza 12 00:18:58 <Alster>	txopi: on CG then?
aza 12 00:19:15 <Alster>	harcesz: it's fun
aza 12 00:19:25 <Didleth>	thx for the meeting for all too :]
aza 12 00:19:44 <txopi>	Alster: yes!
aza 12 00:20:43 <txopi>	bye bye

**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Nov 12 00:21:43 2009