Note: the time codes in these logs refer to CET (UTC+1).
Nov 28 19:03:04 <Alster> i'll be with you in a minute
Nov 28 19:03:40 <didleth> ok, i too
Nov 28 19:09:30 <didleth> i'm back
Nov 28 19:09:39 <didleth> so when we can start let me knwo
Nov 28 19:15:19 <didleth> Alster: harcesz1 do you know or txopi will be?
Nov 28 19:19:53 * harcesz1 ist now known as harcesz
Nov 28 19:20:50 <harcesz> no idea
Nov 28 19:22:54 <Alster> hi
Nov 28 19:23:03 <Alster> oops, this was longer than intended
Nov 28 19:23:08 <Alster> sorry for being late
Nov 28 19:23:34 <Alster> so, what's up for today? Is there an agenda?
Nov 28 19:23:51 <didleth> we forgieve you alster ;] can we start or waiting for a txopi?
Nov 28 19:24:29 <Alster> hmm i guess we should start, we're already 25 minutes late
Nov 28 19:24:48 <Alster> you could have started without me as well ;-)
Nov 28 19:25:30 <didleth> I'm sure there was a agenda, butr could't find het. 'On saturday (is not sure but probably I'll be available), we can talk about xen, screen, etc.' that is for sAturday
Nov 28 19:26:08 <didleth> Alster: you know, i have a meeting with harcesz in two irc every evening - so I prefare to waiting for you ;]
Nov 28 19:26:27 <didleth> as i remember you wanted to say something about xen?
Nov 28 19:27:06 <didleth> https://we.riseup.net/kosmos/skill-sharing-session-3-agenda/version-show/2
Nov 28 19:27:37 <didleth> minus nano, vim, tail, file, df, free, w
Nov 28 19:27:49 <didleth> (it was yestarday)
Nov 28 19:28:10 <Alster> right
Nov 28 19:28:25 <Alster> so you already did nano, vim, tail, file, df, free, w yesterday, correct?
Nov 28 19:29:03 * didleth has left #kosmos
Nov 28 19:29:09 * didleth has joined #kosmos
Nov 28 19:29:14 <Alster> ?
Nov 28 19:29:37 <didleth> exactly vi not vim
Nov 28 19:29:42 <didleth> but is correct
Nov 28 19:29:52 <didleth> we did ps and pstree too
Nov 28 19:29:58 <Alster> ok cool :)
Nov 28 19:30:01 <Alster> i also want to talk about something regarding nadir, i'm just not sure what it is. let's see if i have some log...
Nov 28 19:32:07 <Alster> hmm no logs :-/
Nov 28 19:32:21 <didleth> where was it?
Nov 28 19:32:32 <didleth> I mean - for what we need logs?
Nov 28 19:32:33 <Alster> on silc
Nov 28 19:32:59 <Alster> I think I had a chat with nadir people on silc the other day
Nov 28 19:33:16 <Alster> And I said I would pass some info on to you.
Nov 28 19:33:22 <Alster> Ah, it was about money
Nov 28 19:33:39 <didleth> and what did they say?
Nov 28 19:33:41 <Alster> They say they have not received any money from you for kosmos, yet.
Nov 28 19:33:54 <Alster> And they'd like to have some
Nov 28 19:34:03 <didleth> but they didn't say they need some
Nov 28 19:34:29 <didleth> exactly, when i asked them or is more expensive domu that kosmos, they didn't answer
Nov 28 19:34:51 <didleth> yhm - and how many money they need?
Nov 28 19:34:59 <Alster> I don't know.
Nov 28 19:35:06 <didleth> :-/
Nov 28 19:35:18 <Alster> this was actuall ynot a chat but an email conversation
Nov 28 19:35:24 <Alster> let me look it up quickly
Nov 28 19:35:27 <didleth> ok
Nov 28 19:36:14 <Alster> >> (11:50:10) : wir haben bisher nur geld von indy.de bekommen
Nov 28 19:36:14 <Alster> >> (11:50:29) : eigentlich war die ansage, das wir von den anderen, die kosmos nutzen oder genutz hbane auch mal was bekommen - haben wir aber nie
Nov 28 19:36:24 <Alster> >> (11:50:41) : darum sollen die sich aber kümmern und uns dann was überweisen
Nov 28 19:36:24 <Alster> >> (11:50:51) : und halt soviel wie geht - geld brauchen wir immer
Nov 28 19:37:10 <didleth> warte mal - ich muss das mit harcesz besprechen
Nov 28 19:38:19 <didleth> eoigentlich muessten wir dass in alten e-mail listen durchsuchen - so wie so, hast du eine ahnung wie viel geld sie brauchen?
Nov 28 19:38:56 <Alster> I'll do a short summary in english: Basically they're saying that, so far, they only received money from IMC Germany (which used to host on kosmos, too, but a few years ago), never from PL and EH. And that you should care about it and send some money to them, as much as possible, since they always need money.
Nov 28 19:40:07 <didleth> ok, ich glaube imc-pl muss irc-meeting machen und sich darueber unterhalten
Nov 28 19:40:25 <Alster> To get an idea how much it normally costs you could compare pricing with that of a commercial hosting provider such as www.strato.de
Nov 28 19:40:30 <harcesz> didleth: +1
Nov 28 19:41:21 <harcesz> Alster: we got an idea of how much that costs, the problem is that imc-pl could not afford a commercial server even if it wanted to
Nov 28 19:41:26 <didleth> :-/ klingt schreklich :-/
Nov 28 19:41:46 <Alster> Ich weiß nicht wie deren finanzielle Situation so ist, das besprecht Ihr
Nov 28 19:41:46 <Alster> am besten direkt mit denen mal. Wie Ihr ja wisst sind die einzelnen
Nov 28 19:41:46 <Alster> Indy-Kollektive ja alle autonom und die Umverteilung von Kohle von
Nov 28 19:41:46 <Alster> 'Nord' nach 'Süd' (reiche zu weniger reiche Länder) passiert da über den
Nov 28 19:41:46 <Alster> globalen Indy-Finanztopf. Ich bin nicht sicher ob das den IMCs
Nov 28 19:41:46 <Alster> Euskalherria und Polen klar ist, werde sie auf diesen Topf mal hinweisen.
Nov 28 19:42:01 <Alster> ^^ das habe ich nadir geantwortet
Nov 28 19:42:03 <didleth> harcesz: we should really quiqly find a sponsor - now you see ;P
Nov 28 19:42:12 <harcesz> the minimal wage in poland is around 250 euro/month btw
Nov 28 19:42:28 <didleth> lol
Nov 28 19:42:43 <harcesz> still better then the lack of there of in .de but that give you an idea of the disposible income in .pl
Nov 28 19:42:53 <Alster> i see
Nov 28 19:43:29 <Alster> well if it's difficult for IMC PL to come up witht he money by itself, there's the global IMC fund
Nov 28 19:43:45 <didleth> me is earining circa 214 euro/month ;P
Nov 28 19:43:47 <Alster> which is used to transfer money from richer to poorer IMCs
Nov 28 19:43:59 <harcesz> anyways, we were discussing staying on kosmos and rising the funds
Nov 28 19:44:38 <didleth> i have a question
Nov 28 19:44:39 <harcesz> it's not that it's impossible, its just not as if we're not paying to get a free ride
Nov 28 19:44:58 <didleth> they want a money once time, once a month or once a yerar?
Nov 28 19:44:59 <Alster> harcesz: why would you prefer to keep hosting on kosmos' old hardware?
Nov 28 19:45:23 <harcesz> sry, I meant with nadir not on kosmos
Nov 28 19:45:40 <Alster> ah ok
Nov 28 19:46:11 <Alster> i don't understand "its just not as if we're not paying to get a free ride"
Nov 28 19:46:19 <Alster> can you say it differently?
Nov 28 19:46:37 <didleth> i meen - they want only to have a one donation, or one donation for every month/yerar?
Nov 28 19:46:45 <Alster> didleth: i think they would like regular contributions to their costs
Nov 28 19:47:16 <didleth> and you don't know how many time we have to pay?
Nov 28 19:47:35 <Alster> no, you should discuss this with them directly
Nov 28 19:47:49 <Alster> imc germany usually pays once a year
Nov 28 19:47:59 <harcesz> Alster: were dont intend to use it for free, imc pl is just broke and hardly staying alive
Nov 28 19:48:20 <Alster> harcesz: ah, ok, I understand now
Nov 28 19:48:23 <didleth> Alster: if its not unquiet question... can i ask how many do you pay?
Nov 28 19:48:36 <Alster> harcesz: maybe the tech fund is a good idea then?
Nov 28 19:48:36 <harcesz> *we
Nov 28 19:49:04 <harcesz> might be, well see, we wanted to organise a fundraser for the servers anyway
Nov 28 19:49:17 <harcesz> but as you pointed out talking directly to them makes sense ;]
Nov 28 19:49:22 <didleth> harcesz: jak przetlumaczyc ze chcemy to wiedziec zeby wiedziec na czym stoimy i porowanac z innymi serwerami?
Nov 28 19:49:24 <Alster> didleth: we pay between 600 and 900 euros a year for a virtual server they host for us
Nov 28 19:49:34 <didleth> harcesz: neverminfd ;P
Nov 28 19:50:03 <didleth> hmmm..... like server in usa :-/
Nov 28 19:50:25 <Alster> harcesz: organising a fundraiser is, of course, the better option.
Nov 28 19:50:51 * txopi has joined #kosmos
Nov 28 19:50:56 <Alster> keep in mind that you cannot compare this with a commercial hosting provider
Nov 28 19:50:58 <didleth> hi txopi
Nov 28 19:51:01 <harcesz> yeah, we got an idea that were not in the worst position
Nov 28 19:51:12 <Alster> hey txopi
Nov 28 19:51:16 <txopi> hi all
Nov 28 19:51:18 <harcesz> + every once and again I got a fair amount of money to push into the movement
Nov 28 19:51:23 <harcesz> hi txopi
Nov 28 19:51:25 * didleth doesn't understand why but hopes harcesz/szczym will say it to her
Nov 28 19:51:53 <harcesz> anyways, we should sort it out with nadir, I'll discuss it with didleth prv
Nov 28 19:52:05 <didleth> ok
Nov 28 19:52:16 <Alster> very well
Nov 28 19:52:22 <Alster> txopi: do you read me?
Nov 28 19:52:54 <Zapata> hi
Nov 28 19:53:05 <Alster> txopi: anyway, i'll just put this here so you can read it later. I had an email conversation with nadir.
Nov 28 19:53:09 <Alster> hi Zapata
Nov 28 19:53:11 <didleth> hi Zapata :]
Nov 28 19:53:46 <Zapata> so...
Nov 28 19:53:48 <Alster> txopi: Basically they're saying that, so far, for hosting kosmos, they only received money from IMC Germany (which used to host on kosmos, too, but a few years ago), never from PL and EH. And that you should care about it and send some money to them, as much as possible, since they always need money.
Nov 28 19:54:01 <Zapata> I'm reading the backlog a little bit, but I would like to make some quick points:
Nov 28 19:54:39 * didleth is doing caffe - be in few miniutes
Nov 28 19:55:03 <Zapata> 1. I'm willing to contribute monetarily in any solution
Nov 28 19:55:44 <Zapata> 2. I'm not sure if I understand, but I would opt against keeping kosmos alive, and instead suggest joining other initiatives that have a bigger maintenance crew
Nov 28 19:55:54 <Alster> txopi: if you cannot come up with the funds yourself, or through a fundraiser, there's the option of the global imc tech funds which can be requested from imc finance. and then, there is zapata. ;-)
Nov 28 19:57:24 <Alster> Zapata: The current plan so far is to convert kosmos into a Xen DomU, but to stay with Nadir.
Nov 28 19:58:12 <Alster> Zapata: Are you saying that Nadir's maintenance crew consists of too few people?
Nov 28 19:58:35 <txopi> Alster: i understand. i will talk with imc-eh people. we send money to uk time ago for a new server, but nothing happened
Nov 28 19:59:09 <Zapata> alster: a solution such as a xen domu with nadir is exactly what I would recommend
Nov 28 19:59:12 <txopi> Alster: we have no money right now in the group, but i will talk to the people about what to do
Nov 28 19:59:18 <Alster> txopi: ok, so i was just relaying this message from nadir. please get back to them directly on it, not through me.
Nov 28 19:59:31 <Zapata> alster: what would nadir be expecting, money wise?
Nov 28 19:59:35 <txopi> Alster: ok
Nov 28 19:59:40 <Zapata> ah, 600 - 900 euros a year
Nov 28 20:00:09 <Alster> Zapata: maybe, i don't really know what they would expect for the kosmos replacement
Nov 28 20:00:12 <txopi> do you think that the virtual machine will be able to run a drupal instalation without problems?
Nov 28 20:00:26 <Alster> but it's possible that it would be similar.
Nov 28 20:01:13 <Alster> txopi: one good thing about virtual servers is that you can up- and downsize their resources easily as needed.
Nov 28 20:01:37 <Alster> within the constraints of the real server it runs on, of course.
Nov 28 20:02:16 * txopi gibt Op-Status an didleth
Nov 28 20:02:16 <Alster> txopi: so basically yes, you will be able to have a guest system which can run php web applications
Nov 28 20:03:11 <Alster> I don't think the rsource requirements would differ much to what they are now.
Nov 28 20:03:56 <txopi> Alster: but MIR requires low resources (generates static contents just once, etc.)
Nov 28 20:04:20 <txopi> i wonder if a php app really will work well
Nov 28 20:04:30 <txopi> anyway, message received
Nov 28 20:06:16 <didleth> Zapata: which initiaties do you meantesd?
Nov 28 20:06:59 <Zapata> like nadir
Nov 28 20:07:06 <Zapata> bigger tech groups that offer hosting services
Nov 28 20:09:40 <Alster> txopi: Mir and tomcat do consume quite some resources, too (but it's true that PHP will likely consume more resources). And if you use Drupal with caching, you can have remarkably lower resource consumption results than when you regenerate them for every request.
Nov 28 20:10:35 <Alster> So we seem to be done with this topic? Shall I tell a little bit about xen and virtuaization?
Nov 28 20:11:16 <txopi> Zapata: what it means "money wise"?
Nov 28 20:11:40 <harcesz> txopi: taking money into consideration
Nov 28 20:12:27 <harcesz> Zapata: thank you for your kind offer
Nov 28 20:12:30 <harcesz> we'll see
Nov 28 20:12:31 <txopi> harcesz: ok, i understand more or less
Nov 28 20:13:06 <didleth> btw alster did they say
Nov 28 20:13:17 <didleth> or they want money from each imcs?
Nov 28 20:13:21 <Alster> txopi: this means: "regarding money", "in terms of money"
Nov 28 20:13:21 <didleth> or from two together?
Nov 28 20:13:39 <Alster> ah harcesz already explained
Nov 28 20:14:05 <txopi> ok, i understand. thanks
Nov 28 20:14:22 <Alster> didleth: they did not say whether each IMC should pay seperately. I assume they don't care.
Nov 28 20:14:50 <didleth> Alster: do you thing when we will pay together with eh it would be ok?
Nov 28 20:15:14 <didleth> I mean - sorry i have today ryly problem with english
Nov 28 20:15:33 <Alster> didleth: I assume it doesn't make a difference to Nadir. But only they can tell you for sure.
Nov 28 20:15:33 <didleth> if we will pay together in 2 so much as only 1 imc?
Nov 28 20:15:41 <Alster> ah ok
Nov 28 20:16:14 <Alster> well it surely makes a difference to them if they only get half the money. :)
Nov 28 20:16:34 <Alster> but i also think right now everything is better than nothing.
Nov 28 20:17:06 <didleth> well.... now we have to discuss this euach group
Nov 28 20:17:17 <Alster> the point is, they have costs themselves, and they have to pay them all the time.
Nov 28 20:17:26 <didleth> but I belive so much money cant we now give
Nov 28 20:17:37 <txopi> Alster: if you have any e-mail from nadir, please forward me
Nov 28 20:17:42 <didleth> we have to first find a sponosr
Nov 28 20:18:24 <txopi> didleth: please give me the contect because i never have send them any e-mail (an i finally didn't read the message when they told us to change from kosmos)
Nov 28 20:18:25 <Alster> so you should try to pay the share of their costs which the kosmos server (the current or the new one) causes.
Nov 28 20:19:24 <Alster> txopi: I have pasted the only part of this email which is relevant to this topic above. It's in german.
Nov 28 20:19:50 <txopi> first of all, i want to ask them about the amount of money they spect from us
Nov 28 20:20:37 <Alster> ah you weren't around then, I'll paste it to you in a private message
Nov 28 20:24:19 <Alster> didleth: They didn't say they want the money _now_. They just said they had previously been told they would get money from EH and PL, and they never did. And that this should change.
Nov 28 20:24:48 <didleth> yhm. i'm understand
Nov 28 20:25:14 * harcesz fades away, will check every once and again, just my nick I'll be around, sry
Nov 28 20:25:41 <Alster> I am convinced they will _not_ shut down the server if they receive no payment within a few weeks.
Nov 28 20:26:15 <txopi> few weeks?
Nov 28 20:26:28 <txopi> so this is really urgent
Nov 28 20:26:47 <Alster> I just made "a few weeks" up.
Nov 28 20:27:25 <txopi> Alster: sorry, don't understand the last
Nov 28 20:27:43 <Alster> I was pointing out that I am just speculating.
Nov 28 20:27:48 <didleth> alster: exactly in poland you need cirka 4 month to earn so much money ;P
Nov 28 20:28:02 * txopi wants to understand as well as possible what you say. with more or less understanding is not enought this time
Nov 28 20:29:36 <Alster> I think if they have the impression that there is some progress in your attempts to get some money organised, they will be happy.
Nov 28 20:30:04 <Alster> And happy sysadmins don't shut down servers.
Nov 28 20:30:07 <didleth> yhm - so if ythey becoume some money, not so much like they want, but some - it will be ok?
Nov 28 20:30:34 <didleth> 'And happy sysadmins don't shut down servers' that i can't promise ;D
Nov 28 20:30:38 <Alster> didleth: this is a moral question, and I cannot answer this for you.
Nov 28 20:31:05 <didleth> well, i mean it practis sense not moral
Nov 28 20:32:04 <Alster> at this point you don't even know how much money they would ask for
Nov 28 20:32:42 <didleth> hmm...txopi - sahould i write to nadir in out name and ask how many money they need and for when?
Nov 28 20:32:42 <Alster> so it's really not good to speculate more about whether or not you will be able or have to pay the full amount they ask for.
Nov 28 20:34:15 <txopi> didleth: thank you a lot, but i want to start comunicating with nadir
Nov 28 20:34:33 <didleth> ok
Nov 28 20:34:58 <txopi> previous messages in german doesn't help me to figure out what they are saing exactly and what they whant to say
Nov 28 20:35:33 <txopi> didleth: anyway, it is clear that poland and euskal herria are together in this issue
Nov 28 20:37:05 <txopi> didleth: there is some poland people living here and we know that money funding is easier for eh than for pl, so i will suggest to put as much money as we can for the eh+pl new server
Nov 28 20:37:07 <didleth> yhm - btw txopi i thing we can in another time to talk about drupal
Nov 28 20:37:23 <txopi> didleth: sure
Nov 28 20:37:35 <didleth> yhm, and we will try to have some money
Nov 28 20:38:43 <txopi> the problem is that in so little imc's were just a docen of people participates in the management, this kind of issues (money) can be terrible
Nov 28 20:38:54 <txopi> we will see what happens
Nov 28 20:39:23 <didleth> i thing the problem is that the safety servers are in reach contrys
Nov 28 20:39:44 <didleth> but that we can't change
Nov 28 20:40:36 <didleth> ok - i belive we can go to next topic now
Nov 28 20:40:37 <txopi> well, i'm ready to start the skill sharing
Nov 28 20:40:57 <Alster> \o/
Nov 28 20:41:11 <txopi> on friday we didn't finished with shell commands
Nov 28 20:41:40 <Alster> Sorry to have brought those 'bad news' to you.
Nov 28 20:42:09 <txopi> the logs of the last session are available here: https://we.riseup.net/kosmos/skill-sharing-session-3-log
Nov 28 20:42:25 <Alster> ah great :)
Nov 28 20:42:26 <txopi> if someone whants to take them a look
Nov 28 20:42:34 <Alster> txopi: do you want to finish the shell commands then?
Nov 28 20:42:39 <txopi> today is the 4th session
Nov 28 20:42:48 <txopi> this is the agenda: https://we.riseup.net/kosmos/skill-sharing-session-4-agenda
Nov 28 20:42:50 * didleth have to bad - will be in few minutes
Nov 28 20:43:22 <txopi> Alster: yes
Nov 28 20:43:25 <Alster> 'bad' is german for bathroom
Nov 28 20:43:53 <txopi> we were talking about ps, pstree and i started to explain kill
Nov 28 20:44:15 <txopi> but i realized that didleth doesn't know grep very well
Nov 28 20:44:42 <Alster> so you did regular expressions, too?
Nov 28 20:44:48 <txopi> neither i, but i thought just to explain pipe and grep easy sample
Nov 28 20:45:01 <txopi> i don't know regular expressions
Nov 28 20:45:15 <txopi> i know what are they but i don't use them :-/
Nov 28 20:45:18 <Alster> Well if you use grep then you use regular expressions
Nov 28 20:45:41 <txopi> ls -l | grep foo
Nov 28 20:46:06 <txopi> my regular expressions don't use any special things
Nov 28 20:46:18 <txopi> do you understand?
Nov 28 20:46:34 <Alster> unless you really just search for strings using -F
Nov 28 20:46:52 <Alster> yes I understand
Nov 28 20:46:56 <txopi> Alster: it is better if YOU explain grep
Nov 28 20:47:06 <txopi> that's what i told to didleth on friday
Nov 28 20:47:17 * didleth is back
Nov 28 20:47:26 <txopi> if you explain kill, killall and top is perfect for me
Nov 28 20:47:47 <didleth> lol, I even didn't saw i told it in german ; )
Nov 28 20:47:52 <Alster> ok, so that's the shell commands we have left?
Nov 28 20:48:11 <txopi> in the agenda there is also tee. i used it once, but it would be much better if you explain it
Nov 28 20:48:11 <Alster> didleth: i was thinking you wanted to go to bed.
Nov 28 20:48:42 <txopi> grep, kill, killall, top, tee
Nov 28 20:48:53 <didleth> no no ;)
Nov 28 20:49:05 <didleth> badzimmer ;P
Nov 28 20:49:06 <txopi> i explained ps and pstree. didleth did you understand them?
Nov 28 20:49:17 <didleth> (mit der toilette bei mir zu hause)
Nov 28 20:49:26 <didleth> yhm
Nov 28 20:49:54 <Alster> yhm=yes?
Nov 28 20:50:19 <txopi> Alster: i know. didleth used it hundreds of times in the last session :-D
Nov 28 20:50:26 <didleth> yes
Nov 28 20:50:46 <didleth> harcesz use it to ;PP
Nov 28 20:50:57 <didleth> (i learned it from him exactly ;))
Nov 28 20:51:22 <Alster> i'd like to give a short introduction to 'screen' first before we continue with the other commands. I would not explain all of screen, just the very basic usage, so that we can better work together later.
Nov 28 20:51:29 <Alster> would this be ok with you?
Nov 28 20:51:38 <didleth> for me ok
Nov 28 20:51:47 <Alster> i'll have a quick bathroom visit, too, brb
Nov 28 20:52:36 <txopi> perfect
Nov 28 20:54:27 <Alster> peed, washed hands, got beer -> ready to go
Nov 28 20:54:52 <Alster> ok, can you login to kosmos, please
Nov 28 20:55:42 <txopi> ups
Nov 28 20:55:49 <txopi> $ ssh eh@kosmos.indymedia.org
Nov 28 20:55:49 <txopi> ssh: Could not resolve hostname kosmos.indymedia.org: Name or service not known
Nov 28 20:56:22 <didleth> by works ok
Nov 28 20:56:37 <didleth> txopi: can you try again?
Nov 28 20:56:45 <didleth> did you try as txopi or as eh?
Nov 28 20:56:47 <Alster> txopi: you seem to have a problem with your domain name server there
Nov 28 20:57:13 <txopi> i am in
Nov 28 20:57:32 <txopi> i had no problem like this until now
Nov 28 20:57:42 <txopi> i just tryed 5th time and worked
Nov 28 20:57:49 <txopi> an x-file
Nov 28 20:57:56 <txopi> we can continue Alster
Nov 28 20:58:17 <didleth> me did screen only on irssi
Nov 28 20:58:25 <Alster> ok, plase run this command: screen -x
Nov 28 20:58:26 <didleth> blah
Nov 28 20:58:29 <txopi> the command i tryed to explain on friday are: vi, vim, nano, head, tail, file, df, free, who, w, talk, ps, pstree
Nov 28 20:58:31 <Alster> ok, plase run this command: sudo screen -x
Nov 28 20:58:50 <txopi> done
Nov 28 20:59:04 <didleth> There is no screen to be attached.
Nov 28 20:59:41 <Alster> didleth: did you run it with sudo?
Nov 28 20:59:48 <txopi> my screen is empty and i see the cursor blinking down on the right
Nov 28 20:59:49 <Alster> txopi: what do you see?
Nov 28 21:00:08 <didleth> ok it works
Nov 28 21:00:15 <didleth> white screen
Nov 28 21:00:25 <Alster> yes, my fault, just a second
Nov 28 21:01:19 <Alster> ok, can you try again please
Nov 28 21:01:30 <txopi> done
Nov 28 21:01:44 <Alster> didleth: please run this command: sudo screen -x
Nov 28 21:01:57 <Alster> txopi: i wonder why you don't show up in connected users
Nov 28 21:02:09 <didleth> user tty from login idle jcpu pcpu what
Nov 28 21:02:24 <didleth> Alster: txopi is as eh
Nov 28 21:02:25 <txopi> me too
Nov 28 21:02:55 <txopi> alster sucks!
Nov 28 21:03:03 <txopi> :-P
Nov 28 21:03:03 <Alster> bah!
Nov 28 21:03:12 <didleth> if i good thing - i can now write this session and read it again after some day or hour, right? or i'm not thoing good?
Nov 28 21:04:21 <Alster> didleth: yes, if the screen session is still active then and if it has a long backlog buffer.
Nov 28 21:04:23 * didleth doesn't see txopi on kosmos any more - but she saw him for a moment
Nov 28 21:04:34 <Alster> but you'd rather use the history command for this purpose
Nov 28 21:04:39 <didleth> so it works like on irssi?
Nov 28 21:05:23 <Alster> screen is screen, irssi is irssi, they are not related in terms of functionality, but it is true that irssi is often run from within a screen session
Nov 28 21:06:25 <Alster> screen is basically a 'virtual terminal', it has several uses. But I don't want to go into the details of screen now.
Nov 28 21:06:46 <didleth> yhm
Nov 28 21:07:04 <Alster> I just introduce screen to you so that we can make use of one of its uses: sharing a terminal
Nov 28 21:07:49 <Alster> one ting you need to know is that if you press Ctrl-D now, as you would normally do to logout, you will kill the screen session, so it will stop for all of us
Nov 28 21:08:28 <Alster> however, if you just want to get back to your own command line, you need to press this: Ctrl -a -d
Nov 28 21:08:59 <Alster> i.e., press and keep pressed ctrl, then press 'a' shortly, then press 'd' shortly.
Nov 28 21:09:22 <txopi> aha
Nov 28 21:09:29 <Alster> you will detach from the screen and screen will inform you about it
Nov 28 21:10:05 <didleth> yhm
Nov 28 21:10:10 <Alster> to join the running screen session again later, just do what you already did to join it the first time, i.e. sudo screen -x
Nov 28 21:10:24 <txopi> i'm gonna try
Nov 28 21:10:33 <Alster> can you please try to detach and join again?
Nov 28 21:10:39 <txopi> it works :-)
Nov 28 21:10:45 <didleth> it is like it was with irssi session
Nov 28 21:10:53 <didleth> so i belive i can it
Nov 28 21:11:21 <Alster> didleth: right, it's how it is also used for irssi in screen
Nov 28 21:11:40 <Alster> ok, one more thing: you can have multiple screen windows
Nov 28 21:11:45 <didleth> WAIT
Nov 28 21:11:50 <didleth> sorry
Nov 28 21:11:58 <Alster> what's it?
Nov 28 21:12:12 <didleth> ok it works - no idea why so slow
Nov 28 21:12:26 <Alster> that's because kosmos is badly connected
Nov 28 21:12:33 <didleth> i thought why it doesn't work, but i had to be something with my conection
Nov 28 21:12:36 <Alster> actually, forget about the multiple windows, we'll do this next time
Nov 28 21:12:41 <didleth> ok
Nov 28 21:13:35 <txopi> what's that?!
Nov 28 21:13:43 <Alster> what you see there is what happens when kosmos connects to yahoo.pl
Nov 28 21:14:18 <Alster> some packets are lost (everythime something is lost it gets written in bold letters)
Nov 28 21:14:39 <txopi> wich command did you write to see that?
Nov 28 21:15:05 <Alster> "mtr" my traceroute
Nov 28 21:15:13 <txopi> aha
Nov 28 21:15:21 <didleth> interesting, and why kosmos is conect to yahoo?
Nov 28 21:15:36 <Alster> ...and the latency (Ping) is quite high, 360 milliseconds average.
Nov 28 21:15:59 <Alster> actually i did invoke it as 'mtr yahoo.pl' to make it connect to yahoo
Nov 28 21:16:26 <Alster> someone just pressed some key making it stop
Nov 28 21:16:29 * didleth has disconnected (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
Nov 28 21:16:37 <Alster> oops
Nov 28 21:16:43 * didleth has joined #kosmos
Nov 28 21:16:55 <didleth> sorry, conection problem
Nov 28 21:16:55 <Alster> bad connection?
Nov 28 21:17:10 <txopi> is like traceroute but in a kind of loop
Nov 28 21:17:11 <didleth> like always in saturday evenign ;-/
Nov 28 21:17:25 <Alster> txopi: exactly, it's just a nicer traceroute utility.
Nov 28 21:17:42 <txopi> aha
Nov 28 21:17:42 <Alster> didleth: :-/
Nov 28 21:17:57 <Alster> to exit, you press q (quit)
Nov 28 21:18:39 <Alster> this was just a short excursion to show that kosmos ios badly connected
Nov 28 21:18:47 <Alster> heh thanks
Nov 28 21:19:02 <Alster> no need to press q now
Nov 28 21:19:07 <didleth> kosmos:~# q
Nov 28 21:19:07 <didleth> bash: q: command not found
Nov 28 21:19:08 <Alster> we already exited mtr
Nov 28 21:19:57 <txopi> it was a joke
Nov 28 21:20:07 <Alster> :) ok. so this is what we'll do now: <txopi> grep, kill, killall, top, tee
Nov 28 21:20:07 <txopi> i'm not going to touch anything more
Nov 28 21:20:20 <txopi> yao
Nov 28 21:20:22 <Alster> i'll do it in the reverse order
Nov 28 21:20:23 <txopi> yap
Nov 28 21:20:37 <txopi> no problem for me
Nov 28 21:21:19 <Alster> do the two of you already know about input and output redirection?
Nov 28 21:21:30 <Alster> and about stdout and stderr?
Nov 28 21:21:40 <didleth> eeeee....hwat?
Nov 28 21:21:49 <didleth> input/output is bios?
Nov 28 21:21:54 <Alster> i assume this means 'no'
Nov 28 21:21:56 <txopi> Alster: no
Nov 28 21:21:59 <didleth> and something witrh kernel?:-/
Nov 28 21:22:08 <Alster> no, it's not related to the kernel
Nov 28 21:22:11 <txopi> Output redirection (‘>’ vs ‘>>’), input redirection, pipes
Nov 28 21:22:39 <txopi> i mean, we haven't tolk about it (but i know more or less)
Nov 28 21:22:43 <didleth> aaaaa...... only in a email (it shows previous person)
Nov 28 21:22:56 <txopi> on friday we used pipe
Nov 28 21:23:04 <Alster> ok, we should do this first then
Nov 28 21:23:30 <Alster> i just did 'echo foo'
Nov 28 21:23:41 <didleth> pipe?
Nov 28 21:23:46 <txopi> |
Nov 28 21:23:48 <Alster> this does what you would expect, it prints 'foo' on the screen
Nov 28 21:23:55 <txopi> ls -l | grep foo
Nov 28 21:24:15 <txopi> Alster: aha
Nov 28 21:24:22 <Alster> oops
Nov 28 21:24:25 <Alster> my fault :)
Nov 28 21:24:26 <didleth> didleth@Atena:~$ ls -l | grep foo
Nov 28 21:24:27 <didleth> -rw-r--r-- 1 didleth didleth 8 2009-11-27 20:36 foo
Nov 28 21:24:41 <Alster> can you join the screen session again please
Nov 28 21:24:52 <txopi> done
Nov 28 21:24:57 <didleth> it found foo with regular expression as i belive?
Nov 28 21:25:00 <txopi> you executed clean?
Nov 28 21:25:05 <didleth> i belive i still there
Nov 28 21:25:19 <Alster> i pressed ctrl -d in another windo which was also attached to the screen session
Nov 28 21:25:38 <txopi> didleth: let Alster explain in his order
Nov 28 21:25:50 <didleth> ok
Nov 28 21:25:50 <txopi> we will see regular expressions later
Nov 28 21:26:01 <didleth> sorry
Nov 28 21:26:04 <txopi> pipes are not linked with regular expressions
Nov 28 21:26:13 <Alster> ok, so this echo command prints foo
Nov 28 21:26:20 <txopi> ok
Nov 28 21:26:33 <Alster> instead of putting foo on screen, we can also put it into a file instead
Nov 28 21:26:50 <Alster> this way
Nov 28 21:27:25 <txopi> foo + EOF = 4 bytes
Nov 28 21:27:44 <Alster> i just created a file named 'myfile' and wrote 'foo' into it
Nov 28 21:28:06 <Alster> using 'output redirection' by means of the > character
Nov 28 21:28:32 <didleth> :-/
Nov 28 21:28:37 <Alster> so '> myfile' redirects the output generated yb the previous command to a file named 'myfile'
Nov 28 21:28:53 <didleth> yhm
Nov 28 21:29:00 <Alster> what is it didleth ?
Nov 28 21:29:19 <Alster> am i explaining badly? :)
Nov 28 21:29:26 <didleth> sorry, i have today problem to translating english, but i understand schon
Nov 28 21:29:26 <Alster> too complicated?
Nov 28 21:29:34 <Alster> ok
Nov 28 21:29:54 <didleth> if i will do echo bla bla >myfile.txt
Nov 28 21:30:00 <Alster> didleth: yes please
Nov 28 21:30:05 <didleth> i create myfile.txt with text 'bla bla'?
Nov 28 21:30:06 <Alster> do it in the screen session
Nov 28 21:30:11 <Alster> ok
Nov 28 21:31:17 <Alster> didleth: how are you coming?
Nov 28 21:31:56 <didleth> sorry, screen in kosmos works very slowly to me
Nov 28 21:32:25 <txopi> it works ok to mee
Nov 28 21:32:29 <Alster> hmm true it's not so very well. but it seems to be worse for you than for me.
Nov 28 21:32:50 <Alster> so it can be your connection really :-/
Nov 28 21:33:17 <txopi> i think it is
Nov 28 21:33:25 <Alster> i guess everyone is on the internet on saturday nights in poland ;-)
Nov 28 21:33:38 <Alster> yeay, letters!
Nov 28 21:33:46 <Alster> :-P
Nov 28 21:34:08 <txopi> in eh everybody is in the bars!
Nov 28 21:34:13 <Alster> didleth: if it's too slow for you then just try it on your own computer
Nov 28 21:34:21 <didleth> Alster: i belive you have right ;D i have alway expression all my neighbours are on my pc - but don't know how to secure it
Nov 28 21:34:24 <Alster> txopi: everybody but you
Nov 28 21:34:38 <txopi> Alster: yes :-)
Nov 28 21:34:55 <didleth> Alster: i should try it with echo?
Nov 28 21:34:56 <Alster> didleth: you'll know soon ;-)
Nov 28 21:35:03 <didleth> or with bla bla?
Nov 28 21:35:04 <Alster> didleth: yes, with echo
Nov 28 21:35:16 <Alster> bla bla: command not found
Nov 28 21:35:21 <didleth> sorry, i wanted to ask with foo or with bla bla
Nov 28 21:35:40 <Alster> ah, this choice is entirely up to you
Nov 28 21:35:49 <Alster> you can even use something else
Nov 28 21:35:56 <txopi> didleth: foo doesn't mean anything
Nov 28 21:36:07 <didleth> ok
Nov 28 21:36:12 <txopi> foo = acme = hello world = hi! = shit
Nov 28 21:36:16 <Alster> it's just a silly word
Nov 28 21:36:21 <Alster> hehe yeah
Nov 28 21:36:51 <Alster> a little step for didleth, but a large one for mankind
Nov 28 21:37:11 <Alster> \o/
Nov 28 21:37:16 <txopi> xDDD
Nov 28 21:37:21 <txopi> great!
Nov 28 21:37:30 <didleth> kosmos:~# echo 'bla bla test bla'
Nov 28 21:37:30 <didleth> bla bla test bla
Nov 28 21:37:30 <didleth> kosmos:~# echo 'bla bla test bla' > pliktestowy
Nov 28 21:37:30 <didleth> kosmos:~# cat pliktestowy
Nov 28 21:37:30 <didleth> bla bla test bla
Nov 28 21:37:31 <didleth> kosmos:~# ls -lah pliktestowy
Nov 28 21:37:31 <didleth> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 17 Nov 28 21:36 pliktestowy
Nov 28 21:37:33 <txopi> didleth, you learn so fast!
Nov 28 21:37:44 <Alster> we're watching you already didleth :)
Nov 28 21:37:47 <didleth> lol
Nov 28 21:37:49 <Alster> now clean up this mess ;-)
Nov 28 21:37:50 <txopi> :-D
Nov 28 21:38:10 <didleth> ok
Nov 28 21:38:13 <didleth> delete it?
Nov 28 21:38:18 <Alster> yes please
Nov 28 21:38:25 <didleth> ok
Nov 28 21:38:53 <didleth> done
Nov 28 21:39:04 <txopi> clap clap clap!
Nov 28 21:39:08 <Alster> perfect :)
Nov 28 21:39:12 <Alster> actually i'll do it again, because it's so cool.
Nov 28 21:39:21 <didleth> lol
Nov 28 21:39:41 <didleth> you know, i just did ls becouse i wanted be sure or i deleted it
Nov 28 21:39:53 <Alster> i often do this, too
Nov 28 21:40:08 <Alster> ok, next step is to to it the other way around
Nov 28 21:40:17 <didleth> hehe thx you make my humor really better :]
Nov 28 21:40:29 <Alster> hehe
Nov 28 21:41:05 <Alster> this time, i make echo read what is in pliktestowy and use that to do what it usually does, namely, printing something on screen
Nov 28 21:41:23 <didleth> cat?
Nov 28 21:41:24 <Alster> uh, bad example
Nov 28 21:42:47 <Alster> ok, i'm not sure why it didn't work with 'echo', but 'cat' does what i want it to do
Nov 28 21:43:06 <Alster> it reads pliktestowy and works with its contents
Nov 28 21:43:07 <didleth> it doesn't work with echo?
Nov 28 21:43:42 <Alster> no, echo doesn't seem to read the file, it just prints a blank line
Nov 28 21:44:09 <didleth> WAIT
Nov 28 21:45:02 <txopi> i am getting lost
Nov 28 21:45:24 <txopi> i am searching another example with < in the net
Nov 28 21:45:49 <didleth> :-/
Nov 28 21:45:52 <Alster> thanks txopi, i can't currently think of a good one either
Nov 28 21:46:21 <Alster> didleth: are you just driving?
Nov 28 21:46:53 <Alster> i mean: were you just working in the screen session?
Nov 28 21:47:14 <didleth> i have screen open
Nov 28 21:47:32 <txopi> up, sorry
Nov 28 21:47:36 <txopi> i have an example
Nov 28 21:47:40 <txopi> can i write it?
Nov 28 21:47:42 <didleth> ok do it
Nov 28 21:48:46 <Alster> yeah that's basically the same thing we did before
Nov 28 21:49:14 <txopi> with the other file doesn't work
Nov 28 21:49:24 <Alster> yes it works, but there's nothing in the file
Nov 28 21:49:26 <txopi> any clue?
Nov 28 21:49:32 <txopi> ah
Nov 28 21:49:53 <txopi> so that is the problem!
Nov 28 21:49:59 <Alster> you did "echo > pliktestowy" to create it earlier
Nov 28 21:50:40 <Alster> this makes echo print nothing but a line feed, and then you redirected it to a file
Nov 28 21:50:55 <Alster> didleth: are you still following?
Nov 28 21:51:07 <txopi> she is writing!
Nov 28 21:51:12 <didleth> it works i belive :-/
Nov 28 21:51:15 <Alster> oh ok, i thouhgt it was you
Nov 28 21:51:22 <didleth> kosmos:~# echo 'kurwa' > ichuj.html
Nov 28 21:51:22 <didleth> kosmos:~# cat ichuj.html
Nov 28 21:51:22 <didleth> kurwa
Nov 28 21:51:43 <Alster> kurwa, that's shit in polish, hmm?
Nov 28 21:51:48 <didleth> lol
Nov 28 21:52:08 <didleth> i didn't know you know polish word, but i could supposte that ;P
Nov 28 21:52:24 <didleth> i chuj is another bad expression in polish ;-)
Nov 28 21:52:27 <txopi> bitch
Nov 28 21:52:28 <Alster> its one of the few i do know
Nov 28 21:52:33 <didleth> ;D
Nov 28 21:52:42 <didleth> txopi seems to know this too
Nov 28 21:52:55 <txopi> google trasnlate ;-P
Nov 28 21:53:01 <didleth> jest kurwa mented 'beach', but is used as koma
Nov 28 21:53:40 <txopi> so we have > and <
Nov 28 21:53:43 <txopi> what more?
Nov 28 21:53:45 <didleth> anyway, with cat it works
Nov 28 21:54:00 <didleth> but - d we need to use bith?
Nov 28 21:54:25 <didleth> exactly i dont know what < do
Nov 28 21:55:53 <Alster> "somecommand < somefile" reads the contents of somefile, and passes this to somecommand
Nov 28 21:56:04 <didleth> :-/
Nov 28 21:56:14 <Alster> and somecommand then processes it as it usually would
Nov 28 21:56:32 <didleth> but.... cat works without <
Nov 28 21:56:47 <didleth> some examle were its really needed?
Nov 28 21:57:07 <Alster> i'm thinking of one
Nov 28 21:57:40 <txopi> me too but i just can think about seed, awk and thing that i really don't know very well
Nov 28 21:58:27 <txopi> i never have used <
Nov 28 21:58:42 <txopi> i think the really interesting redirections are > and >>
Nov 28 21:58:50 <txopi> also | is useful
Nov 28 21:58:59 <txopi> why don't we skip < ?
Nov 28 21:59:16 <txopi> we need practical knoledge
Nov 28 21:59:20 <Alster> i agree that > and >> and | are more commonly used and more useful
Nov 28 21:59:35 <Alster> we can make an example with grep later on
Nov 28 21:59:38 <Alster> so 'somecommand < somefile' is called "input redirection", and 'somecommand > somefile' is called "output redirection"
Nov 28 22:00:03 <Alster> there's a second form of output redirection: >>
Nov 28 22:00:06 <didleth> :-/ i see in an exaple later ok?
Nov 28 22:00:10 <didleth> ok
Nov 28 22:00:54 <Alster> if you remind me to show you another example after you learnt grep then I'll make an example then
Nov 28 22:01:11 <Alster> ok, about >>
Nov 28 22:01:17 <Alster> watch the screen
Nov 28 22:01:21 <didleth> ok
Nov 28 22:02:29 <didleth> there is nothing hapend by me on screen
Nov 28 22:02:52 <Alster> it's your connection, you'll see it delayed
Nov 28 22:02:55 <txopi> i am reading what you are doing
Nov 28 22:04:28 <Alster> didleth: do you see something by now?
Nov 28 22:04:47 <didleth> no - only kosmos:~# echo 'kurwa' > ichuj.html
Nov 28 22:04:47 <didleth> kosmos:~# cat ichuj.html
Nov 28 22:04:47 <didleth> kurwa
Nov 28 22:04:47 <didleth> kosmos:~#
Nov 28 22:05:07 <didleth> o now i see to much
Nov 28 22:05:17 <didleth> i didn't show the anfang
Nov 28 22:05:33 <txopi> Alster: it has any sens that irc is so fast for didleth and the ssh connection so slow?
Nov 28 22:05:38 <Alster> someone is playing with my screen
Nov 28 22:05:48 <txopi> not me
Nov 28 22:05:59 <didleth> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1 Nov 28 21:45 pliktestowy
Nov 28 22:05:59 <didleth> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K Jun 19 2007 sbin
Nov 28 22:05:59 <didleth> kosmos:~# rm pliktestowy output ichuj.html
Nov 28 22:05:59 <didleth> kosmos:~# # just cleaning up a little. ok let's go
Nov 28 22:05:59 <didleth> kosmos:~# #echo 1234 > myfile
Nov 28 22:06:00 <didleth> kosmos:~# cat myfile
Nov 28 22:06:00 <didleth> cat: myfile: No such file or directory
Nov 28 22:06:01 <didleth> kosmos:~# echo 1234 > myfile
Nov 28 22:06:01 <didleth> kosmos:~# cat myfile
Nov 28 22:06:01 <didleth> 1234
Nov 28 22:06:01 <didleth> kosmos:~# echo 5678 > myfile
Nov 28 22:06:03 <didleth> kosmos:~# cat myfile
Nov 28 22:06:03 <didleth> 5678
Nov 28 22:06:04 <didleth> kosmos:~# rm myfile
Nov 28 22:06:40 <didleth> that is what i see now
Nov 28 22:07:27 <txopi> Alster: on friday i told the commands here and didleth executed them on local
Nov 28 22:07:28 <Alster> txopi: not really, unless the routing from didleth to kosmos is broken or she has port limiting on port 22
Nov 28 22:07:37 <txopi> perhaps if a better system in this situation
Nov 28 22:07:39 <Alster> yes we should do it locally
Nov 28 22:07:50 <Alster> thanks for the hint tyopi
Nov 28 22:07:56 <Alster> txopi :)
Nov 28 22:08:06 <txopi> just trying to help...
Nov 28 22:08:07 <didleth> sorry for making problem
Nov 28 22:08:21 <Alster> didleth: you don't cause a problem ;-)
Nov 28 22:08:28 <didleth> i am just not good in netzt-conection-sachen
Nov 28 22:08:34 <Alster> didleth: can you run this locally:
Nov 28 22:08:48 <Alster> cat myfile
Nov 28 22:08:49 <txopi> Alster: you can paste all you do on local
Nov 28 22:08:58 <txopi> including the output
Nov 28 22:09:14 <txopi> if you want
Nov 28 22:09:31 <didleth> Alster: and shouldn't i first create myfile? ;]
Nov 28 22:09:32 <txopi> but a bit of exercise i think is good to learn and memorice
Nov 28 22:10:07 <Alster> i'll paste everything here that i do in the screen session
Nov 28 22:10:23 <didleth> as you wish...
Nov 28 22:10:26 <didleth> didleth@Atena:~$ cat myfile
Nov 28 22:10:26 <didleth> cat: myfile: No such file or directory
Nov 28 22:10:29 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat myfile
Nov 28 22:10:29 <Alster> cat: myfile: No such file or directory
Nov 28 22:10:29 <Alster> kosmos:~# echo 1234 > myfile
Nov 28 22:10:29 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat myfile
Nov 28 22:10:29 <Alster> 1234
Nov 28 22:10:29 <Alster> kosmos:~# echo 5678 > myfile
Nov 28 22:10:29 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat myfile
Nov 28 22:10:29 <Alster> 5678
Nov 28 22:10:29 <Alster> kosmos:~# rm myfile
Nov 28 22:10:29 <Alster> kosmos:~# ls myfile
Nov 28 22:10:29 <Alster> ls: cannot access myfile: No such file or directory
Nov 28 22:10:29 <Alster> kosmos:~# echo 1234 > myfile
Nov 28 22:10:29 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat myfile
Nov 28 22:10:29 <Alster> 1234
Nov 28 22:10:29 <Alster> kosmos:~# echo 5678 >> myfile
Nov 28 22:10:29 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat myfile
Nov 28 22:10:29 <Alster> 1234
Nov 28 22:10:29 <Alster> 5678
Nov 28 22:10:31 <didleth> (I told)
Nov 28 22:10:37 <didleth> ok
Nov 28 22:10:51 <Alster> you can run all of these commands now on your computer didleth
Nov 28 22:10:58 <didleth> :-/
Nov 28 22:11:02 <didleth> ok
Nov 28 22:11:03 <Alster> just if you want
Nov 28 22:11:22 <txopi> the core is this:
Nov 28 22:11:29 <txopi> echo 1234 > myfile
Nov 28 22:11:35 <txopi> echo 5678 >> myfile
Nov 28 22:11:43 <txopi> $ cat myfile
Nov 28 22:11:43 <txopi> 1234
Nov 28 22:11:43 <txopi> 5678
Nov 28 22:12:03 <txopi> >> appends
Nov 28 22:12:12 <didleth> hmmm.... do i good understand - if i write echo to existing file, i delete the old content?
Nov 28 22:12:43 <txopi> yes, you rewrite
Nov 28 22:12:51 <Alster> if you redirect the output of echo to a file using > then you overwrite it, yes
Nov 28 22:12:56 <Alster> kosmos:~# echo 90AB >>myfile
Nov 28 22:12:56 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat myfile
Nov 28 22:12:56 <Alster> 1234
Nov 28 22:12:56 <Alster> 5678
Nov 28 22:12:56 <Alster> 90AB
Nov 28 22:12:56 <Alster> kosmos:~# echo CDEF >myfile
Nov 28 22:12:56 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat myfile
Nov 28 22:12:56 <Alster> CDEF
Nov 28 22:12:56 <Alster> kosmos:~#
Nov 28 22:13:04 <didleth> >> ad the second line to file?
Nov 28 22:13:55 <Alster> "somecommand >> somfile" will APPEND somecommand's output to somefile
Nov 28 22:14:21 <didleth> yhm, the add the next line?
Nov 28 22:14:43 <Alster> can you say this differently, please?
Nov 28 22:14:44 <didleth> in cat its simple
Nov 28 22:14:59 <didleth> do you have another comand to probe this?
Nov 28 22:15:10 <Alster> sure, use 'ls'
Nov 28 22:15:17 <txopi> this is useful for example to add a ssh key in your authorized_keys file
Nov 28 22:15:22 <Alster> ls > mytest
Nov 28 22:15:24 <didleth> >>file add the next comant to the file
Nov 28 22:15:26 <didleth> ok
Nov 28 22:15:40 <Alster> cat mytest
Nov 28 22:15:47 <txopi> eh@kosmos:~/.ssh$ cat newkey.pub >> authorized_keys
Nov 28 22:15:47 <Alster> ls -l > mytest
Nov 28 22:15:51 <Alster> cat mytest
Nov 28 22:15:59 <Alster> ls >> mytest
Nov 28 22:16:02 <Alster> cat mytest
Nov 28 22:17:10 <didleth> :-/
Nov 28 22:17:37 <txopi> can i try with another example?
Nov 28 22:17:44 <Alster> sure
Nov 28 22:17:49 <txopi> ok
Nov 28 22:18:09 <txopi> didleth: imagine you have two directories with video files
Nov 28 22:18:20 <txopi> you want to make a list of them
Nov 28 22:18:33 <txopi> create a file with all the names to print it, for example
Nov 28 22:18:55 <txopi> the directories are called video1 and video2
Nov 28 22:19:08 <txopi> how you can do it easily?
Nov 28 22:19:09 <didleth> yhm
Nov 28 22:19:21 <txopi> ls video1 > list.txt
Nov 28 22:19:28 <txopi> ls video2 >> list.txt
Nov 28 22:19:38 <txopi> done!
Nov 28 22:20:21 <txopi> list.txt have all the names. first the names of video1 and next the names of video2
Nov 28 22:20:33 <didleth> yes now i understand :]
Nov 28 22:20:34 <txopi> >> redirects the result of a command to a file
Nov 28 22:20:45 <txopi> it can be one line or a lot of them
Nov 28 22:20:48 <txopi> ok
Nov 28 22:21:01 <didleth> thx for the explenation :]
Nov 28 22:21:09 <txopi> no problem
Nov 28 22:21:17 <txopi> Alster, you turn
Nov 28 22:21:28 <txopi> Alster, your turn
Nov 28 22:22:16 <Alster> kosmos:~# ls video1
Nov 28 22:22:16 <Alster> beautifulgirl.mov crazygeek.avi lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:22:16 <Alster> kosmos:~# ls video2
Nov 28 22:22:16 <Alster> alsterpooping.ogm didlethnosepicking.wmv
Nov 28 22:22:16 <Alster> kosmos:~#
Nov 28 22:22:30 <txopi> Alster, perhaps you can extend this example when explaining | (sort command)
Nov 28 22:22:52 <Alster> kosmos:~# ls video1 > list.txt
Nov 28 22:22:52 <Alster> kosmos:~# ls video2 >> list.txt
Nov 28 22:22:52 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat list.txt
Nov 28 22:22:52 <Alster> beautifulgirl.mov
Nov 28 22:22:52 <Alster> crazygeek.avi
Nov 28 22:22:52 <Alster> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:22:52 <Alster> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 28 22:22:52 <Alster> didlethnosepicking.wmv
Nov 28 22:22:52 <Alster> kosmos:~#
Nov 28 22:23:17 <txopi> perfect
Nov 28 22:24:24 * didleth bedaeuert dass sie nicht english kennt and desn't understand thopic of the movies ;]
Nov 28 22:24:35 <Alster> hehe
Nov 28 22:25:05 <Alster> okay let's do grep next?
Nov 28 22:25:09 <didleth> (and bedeuert dass she don't know how to say 'bedeuern' in english ;-))
Nov 28 22:25:11 <didleth> ok
Nov 28 22:25:49 <Alster> $ dict bedauern
Nov 28 22:25:52 <Alster> From German - English Dictionary 1.5 [german-english]:
Nov 28 22:25:52 <Alster> Bedauern
Nov 28 22:25:52 <Alster> {n}
Nov 28 22:25:52 <Alster> regret
Nov 28 22:25:56 <Alster> $
Nov 28 22:26:23 <didleth> O_o
Nov 28 22:26:29 <Alster> txopi: do you want to present your "| sort" example?
Nov 28 22:26:37 <didleth> do i havbe something like this in uuntu?
Nov 28 22:27:07 <txopi> Alster: no. i prefer if you explain in your order and way
Nov 28 22:27:51 <Alster> didleth: not unless you have done this: sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude install dict dict-freedict-deu-eng
Nov 28 22:28:05 <Alster> txopi: ok
Nov 28 22:28:41 <Alster> didleth: let's go on?
Nov 28 22:28:44 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat list.txt
Nov 28 22:28:44 <Alster> beautifulgirl.mov
Nov 28 22:28:44 <Alster> crazygeek.avi
Nov 28 22:28:44 <Alster> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:28:44 <Alster> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 28 22:28:44 <Alster> didlethnosepicking.wmv
Nov 28 22:28:44 <Alster> kosmos:~#
Nov 28 22:29:15 <didleth> yhm
Nov 28 22:29:24 <Alster> so we have this list.txt file with your videos in it
Nov 28 22:29:48 <Alster> now that's nice but every list should be sorted
Nov 28 22:30:05 <Alster> luckily that's pretty easily done
Nov 28 22:30:25 <Alster> there's a 'sort' command for this
Nov 28 22:30:56 <Alster> kosmos:~# sort list.txt
Nov 28 22:30:56 <Alster> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 28 22:30:56 <Alster> beautifulgirl.mov
Nov 28 22:30:56 <Alster> crazygeek.avi
Nov 28 22:30:56 <Alster> didlethnosepicking.wmv
Nov 28 22:30:56 <Alster> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:30:56 <Alster> kosmos:~#
Nov 28 22:31:33 <Alster> it reads the list.txt files and outputs its content in a sorted order
Nov 28 22:31:39 <didleth> its sort alfabetish?
Nov 28 22:31:59 <Alster> yes it sorts alphanumerical order by default
Nov 28 22:32:36 <didleth> ok i undersand
Nov 28 22:33:09 <Alster> ok now we have the sorted version on screen, but i want it in a file.
Nov 28 22:33:19 <Alster> how would i do that?
Nov 28 22:33:56 <Alster> any idea, didleth ?
Nov 28 22:34:28 <didleth> wait
Nov 28 22:35:07 <didleth> sort list.txt > myfile.txt ?
Nov 28 22:35:25 <Alster> txopi: if you look at the screen this explains a lot
Nov 28 22:35:35 <Alster> didleth: yes!
Nov 28 22:35:43 <Alster> very well
Nov 28 22:35:45 <didleth> :]
Nov 28 22:35:59 <didleth> you teach good :]
Nov 28 22:36:03 <txopi> Alster: i don't understand too much lucking at the screen (many bold?)
Nov 28 22:36:05 <Alster> you learn well
Nov 28 22:36:22 <Alster> txopi: high packet loss from kosmos to didleth
Nov 28 22:36:23 <didleth> only becouse i have a good teachers :]
Nov 28 22:36:40 <Alster> two of them actually
Nov 28 22:37:13 <didleth> yes, sorry for plural is the not a
Nov 28 22:37:25 <didleth> but i make 's' on the end of the word ;D
Nov 28 22:37:35 <txopi> no problem
Nov 28 22:37:47 <txopi> now i am just an assistant :-D
Nov 28 22:38:03 <Alster> didleth: another way to achieve exactly the same thing is to this: cat list.txt | sort > myfile.txt
Nov 28 22:38:06 <didleth> you are both teachers now - but we can continauate :]
Nov 28 22:38:18 <didleth> ok
Nov 28 22:38:57 <txopi> imagine you want all the ogm files in alfabetical order
Nov 28 22:39:20 <Alster> "somecommand | anothercommand" runs somecommand, and what it would normally output on screen is instead redirected, but not to a file, but to another command
Nov 28 22:39:26 <txopi> you have to filer the lines (grep) and sort them (sort)
Nov 28 22:39:33 <txopi> all in one command!
Nov 28 22:40:17 <didleth> ogm is a one of formats?
Nov 28 22:40:36 <Alster> yes, ogg media (ogm) is a video format
Nov 28 22:40:48 <didleth> aha, i knew this as ogg
Nov 28 22:40:50 <txopi> # cat list.txt
Nov 28 22:40:50 <txopi> beautifulgirl.mov
Nov 28 22:40:50 <txopi> crazygeek.avi
Nov 28 22:40:50 <txopi> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:40:50 <txopi> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 28 22:40:51 <txopi> didlethnosepicking.wmv
Nov 28 22:41:06 <Alster> "ogg movie" actually, not "ogg media"
Nov 28 22:41:16 <didleth> maybe sort *ogm > myfile ?
Nov 28 22:42:12 <didleth> wait
Nov 28 22:42:14 <didleth> wrong
Nov 28 22:42:36 <txopi> you have to use grep and sort, both
Nov 28 22:42:43 <didleth> ls sort *ogm >list.txt ?
Nov 28 22:42:48 <didleth> aha...ok
Nov 28 22:42:54 <didleth> grep :-/
Nov 28 22:43:13 <txopi> do you remember when we used this? ls -l | grep foo
Nov 28 22:43:15 <didleth> grep *ogm | sort >list.txt ?
Nov 28 22:43:24 * didleth is doing something wrong but doesn't know what
Nov 28 22:43:35 <didleth> aha, ok
Nov 28 22:43:38 <txopi> you almost achieved!
Nov 28 22:43:46 <Alster> almost right :)
Nov 28 22:44:14 <Alster> you just missed to tell it what to work on, i.e. where the input comes from
Nov 28 22:44:15 <didleth> ls | grep *ogm >list.txt
Nov 28 22:44:22 <txopi> and sort?
Nov 28 22:44:41 <didleth> ?
Nov 28 22:44:41 <didleth> i don't know :-/
Nov 28 22:44:45 <txopi> ok
Nov 28 22:44:48 <txopi> one solution is:
Nov 28 22:44:56 <txopi> cat list.txt | grep ogm | sort
Nov 28 22:45:00 <txopi> they are more
Nov 28 22:45:07 <txopi> # cat list.txt | grep ogm | sort
Nov 28 22:45:07 <txopi> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 28 22:45:07 <txopi> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:45:37 <txopi> you can use pipes and pipes and concatenate commands until you get what you want
Nov 28 22:45:57 <didleth> and i have a question
Nov 28 22:46:14 <txopi> shut
Nov 28 22:46:28 <didleth> (22:44:58) txopi: cat list.txt | grep ogm | sort
Nov 28 22:46:43 <didleth> but shouldn't we first create list.txt?
Nov 28 22:47:11 <txopi> of course
Nov 28 22:47:14 <Alster> <Alster> kosmos:~# ls video1 > list.txt
Nov 28 22:47:14 <Alster> <Alster> kosmos:~# ls video2 >> list.txt
Nov 28 22:47:14 <Alster> <Alster> kosmos:~# cat list.txt
Nov 28 22:47:14 <Alster> <Alster> beautifulgirl.mov
Nov 28 22:47:14 <Alster> <Alster> crazygeek.avi
Nov 28 22:47:14 <Alster> <Alster> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:47:14 <Alster> <Alster> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 28 22:47:14 <Alster> <Alster> didlethnosepicking.wmv
Nov 28 22:47:14 <Alster> <Alster> kosmos:~#
Nov 28 22:47:16 <txopi> but we created later
Nov 28 22:47:29 <Alster> we created it earlier
Nov 28 22:47:39 <txopi> earlier
Nov 28 22:47:49 <txopi> look at this:
Nov 28 22:48:07 <txopi> kosmos:~# cat list.txt
Nov 28 22:48:07 <txopi> beautifulgirl.mov
Nov 28 22:48:07 <txopi> crazygeek.avi
Nov 28 22:48:07 <txopi> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:48:07 <txopi> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 28 22:48:09 <txopi> didlethnosepicking.wmv
Nov 28 22:48:11 <txopi> kosmos:~# cat list.txt | grep ogm
Nov 28 22:48:13 <txopi> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:48:15 <txopi> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 28 22:48:15 <didleth> aha, i thounght its a new excercise so i have to create it ;]
Nov 28 22:48:17 <txopi> kosmos:~# cat list.txt
Nov 28 22:48:19 <txopi> beautifulgirl.mov
Nov 28 22:48:21 <txopi> crazygeek.avi
Nov 28 22:48:23 <txopi> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:48:25 <txopi> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 28 22:48:27 <txopi> didlethnosepicking.wmv
Nov 28 22:48:29 <txopi> kosmos:~# cat list.txt | grep ogm
Nov 28 22:48:31 <txopi> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:48:33 <txopi> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 28 22:48:35 <txopi> kosmos:~# cat list.txt | grep ogm | sort
Nov 28 22:48:39 <txopi> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 28 22:48:41 <txopi> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:48:43 <txopi> ouch
Nov 28 22:48:45 <txopi> forget it
Nov 28 22:48:47 <txopi> i paste wrong
Nov 28 22:48:51 <txopi> you have the file with all the names unsorted
Nov 28 22:49:14 <txopi> you want to select just the ones that have ogm in its name
Nov 28 22:49:22 <txopi> so you can do for example this:
Nov 28 22:49:32 <txopi> kosmos:~# cat list.txt | grep ogm
Nov 28 22:49:32 <txopi> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:49:32 <txopi> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 28 22:49:46 <txopi> but this is still unsorted, so toy can add | sort
Nov 28 22:49:53 <didleth> yhm
Nov 28 22:49:54 <txopi> kosmos:~# cat list.txt | grep ogm | sort
Nov 28 22:49:55 <txopi> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 28 22:49:55 <txopi> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:49:58 <didleth> i suppose i understand
Nov 28 22:50:12 <txopi> of course you can do in other order
Nov 28 22:50:29 <txopi> cat list.txt | sort | grep ogm
Nov 28 22:50:39 <txopi> but the result will be the same
Nov 28 22:51:13 <txopi> if you want to save the result in a file add this: > mylist.txt
Nov 28 22:51:30 <didleth> and how to convert didlethnosepicking.wmv to didlethnosepicking.ogg ? i din't like windows ;P
Nov 28 22:51:34 <didleth> (just joking)
Nov 28 22:51:37 <txopi> kosmos:~# cat list.txt | grep ogm | sort > mylist.txt
Nov 28 22:51:37 <txopi> kosmos:~# cat mylist.txt
Nov 28 22:51:37 <txopi> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 28 22:51:37 <txopi> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:51:49 <txopi> he he he
Nov 28 22:52:08 <txopi> that's another history :-)
Nov 28 22:52:32 <txopi> so, do you think you understand enought | and > now?
Nov 28 22:52:39 <didleth> i belive so
Nov 28 22:52:52 <didleth> sory taking you so much time for it
Nov 28 22:53:04 <txopi> Alster: what do you want to do? more examples? continue with other thing?
Nov 28 22:53:24 <Alster> let's show how it looks the other way around
Nov 28 22:53:52 <txopi> didleth: don't worry. there is people that never understand this. you understand quickly and by irc in english. is well, very well
Nov 28 22:54:06 <Alster> yes it is!
Nov 28 22:54:47 <Alster> didleth: ok, same thing, just that we do the sorting first, and only grep then:
Nov 28 22:54:51 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat list.txt
Nov 28 22:54:51 <Alster> beautifulgirl.mov
Nov 28 22:54:51 <Alster> crazygeek.avi
Nov 28 22:54:51 <Alster> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:54:51 <Alster> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 28 22:54:51 <Alster> didlethnosepicking.wmv
Nov 28 22:54:59 <Alster> kosmos:~#
Nov 28 22:55:10 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat list.txt | sort
Nov 28 22:55:10 <Alster> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 28 22:55:10 <Alster> beautifulgirl.mov
Nov 28 22:55:10 <Alster> crazygeek.avi
Nov 28 22:55:10 <Alster> didlethnosepicking.wmv
Nov 28 22:55:10 <Alster> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:55:19 <Alster> kosmos:~#
Nov 28 22:55:27 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat list.txt | sort | grep ogm
Nov 28 22:55:27 <Alster> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 28 22:55:27 <Alster> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:55:27 <Alster> kosmos:~#
Nov 28 22:55:44 <Alster> so, as txopi said, it works bot ways
Nov 28 22:55:46 <didleth> yhm, i belive i understand :]
Nov 28 22:55:58 <Alster> grep is a really mighty command
Nov 28 22:56:42 <Alster> kosmos:~# cd video1
Nov 28 22:56:42 <Alster> kosmos:~/video1# ls
Nov 28 22:56:42 <Alster> beautifulgirl.mov crazygeek.avi lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:56:42 <Alster> kosmos:~/video1#
Nov 28 22:56:53 <Alster> kosmos:~/video1# ls -l
Nov 28 22:56:53 <Alster> total 0
Nov 28 22:56:53 <Alster> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Nov 28 22:20 beautifulgirl.mov
Nov 28 22:56:53 <Alster> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Nov 28 22:20 crazygeek.avi
Nov 28 22:56:53 <Alster> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Nov 28 22:20 lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:56:53 <Alster> kosmos:~/video1#
Nov 28 22:57:59 <Alster> kosmos:~/video1# ls -l
Nov 28 22:57:59 <Alster> total 0
Nov 28 22:57:59 <Alster> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Nov 28 22:20 beautifulgirl.mov
Nov 28 22:57:59 <Alster> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Nov 28 22:20 crazygeek.avi
Nov 28 22:57:59 <Alster> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Nov 28 22:20 lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 22:57:59 <Alster> kosmos:~/video1#
Nov 28 22:58:07 <Alster> oh, that'S the same :)
Nov 28 22:58:18 <didleth> yhm
Nov 28 22:58:52 <Alster> do you remember when we talked about the search function in 'less'?
Nov 28 22:59:00 <didleth> /
Nov 28 22:59:08 <Alster> correct! :)
Nov 28 22:59:10 <didleth> + regular expression
Nov 28 22:59:27 <Alster> yes :) i told you there can be problems when you search for something
Nov 28 22:59:41 <didleth> sorry guys, a i have a stupid asking (bitte)
Nov 28 22:59:51 <Alster> ok?
Nov 28 23:00:01 <Alster> just say it
Nov 28 23:00:22 <didleth> I mean it's time for my dog to go out - but i will still to cintinuate session... it is possiblre that you are here in 15-30 minutes?
Nov 28 23:00:35 <Alster> i will be
Nov 28 23:00:40 <txopi> me too
Nov 28 23:00:49 <txopi> i will stay connected until 00:00
Nov 28 23:00:54 <didleth> ok so can i go out with her?
Nov 28 23:00:55 <txopi> 1 hoer more
Nov 28 23:01:01 <txopi> 1 hour more
Nov 28 23:01:04 <Alster> yes, have a nice walk
Nov 28 23:01:29 <txopi> let her pee!
Nov 28 23:01:32 <didleth> ok, sorry very much - but you know, its a blockflat and someone have to go out with her
Nov 28 23:01:42 <didleth> brb
Nov 28 23:01:53 <txopi> i'm going to eat something Alster
Nov 28 23:02:00 <Alster> me too
Nov 28 23:02:09 <Alster> i'll be back here at 23:30
Nov 28 23:02:15 <txopi> Alster: do you want fruit? cookies? xDD
Nov 28 23:02:17 <Alster> feel free to continue earlier if you like
Nov 28 23:02:34 <txopi> earlier?
Nov 28 23:02:36 <Alster> txopi: cookies sounds good
Nov 28 23:02:53 <txopi> cat cooky | Alster
Nov 28 23:02:55 <txopi> xDD
Nov 28 23:04:00 <Alster> cat cat | cut | sort
Nov 28 23:04:24 <txopi> cd bar
Nov 28 23:04:27 <txopi> more beer
Nov 28 23:04:32 <Alster> :)
Nov 28 23:06:35 <txopi> man: why did you get a divorce?
Nov 28 23:06:36 <txopi> man:: Too many arguments.
Nov 28 23:07:49 <txopi> ok, see you later
Nov 28 23:24:17 <didleth> ok im back
Nov 28 23:32:00 <txopi> i'm back too
Nov 28 23:32:54 <didleth> :]
Nov 28 23:35:52 <didleth> alster are you there?
Nov 28 23:39:34 <didleth> hmmm...
Nov 28 23:39:40 <didleth> so what now?
Nov 28 23:40:02 <didleth> he said to continuate with him earlier if we want :-/
Nov 28 23:40:11 <Alster> didleth: sorry
Nov 28 23:40:28 <Alster> back now
Nov 28 23:40:33 <didleth> ok
Nov 28 23:40:40 <txopi> ok
Nov 28 23:40:56 <Alster> where were we?
Nov 28 23:41:09 <Alster> ah regular expressions
Nov 28 23:41:23 <didleth> we finished grep sort > >> i belive
Nov 28 23:41:59 <Alster> well we did not finish grep yet
Nov 28 23:42:14 <Alster> kosmos:~/video1# ls -l
Nov 28 23:42:14 <Alster> total 0
Nov 28 23:42:14 <Alster> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Nov 28 22:20 beautifulgirl.mov
Nov 28 23:42:14 <Alster> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Nov 28 22:20 crazygeek.avi
Nov 28 23:42:14 <Alster> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Nov 28 22:20 lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 23:42:14 <Alster> kosmos:~/video1#
Nov 28 23:43:41 <Alster> kosmos:~/video1# ls -l | grep anarchist
Nov 28 23:43:41 <Alster> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Nov 28 22:20 lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 23:43:41 <Alster> kosmos:~/video1# ls -l | grep .narchist
Nov 28 23:43:41 <Alster> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Nov 28 22:20 lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 23:43:41 <Alster> kosmos:~/video1#
Nov 28 23:44:11 <Alster> you remember the example I made about 'less' and searching for a dot?
Nov 28 23:44:28 <Alster> it's the same for 'grep'
Nov 28 23:44:34 <didleth> yhm
Nov 28 23:44:40 <didleth> the same reguls?
Nov 28 23:44:52 <didleth> i mean that grep uses regular expression?
Nov 28 23:45:16 <Alster> yes, by default grep uses the same regular expressions as those used in the search of 'less'
Nov 28 23:46:10 <Alster> unfortunately there are different regular expression syntaxes, though, and not every command line tool uses the same syntax
Nov 28 23:46:40 <didleth> :-/
Nov 28 23:47:00 <Alster> grep supports two such syntaxes, a simple one, which is the default, and an extended one, which you can activate with -E
Nov 28 23:47:24 <didleth> and the exgtra-one - what it do?
Nov 28 23:47:50 <Alster> they can give different results since some of the patterns you use on them are interpreted differently
Nov 28 23:48:14 <Alster> let'S focus on the simple one for now, since this is not really so simple either. :)
Nov 28 23:48:29 <Alster> regular expressions are mighty wizardry
Nov 28 23:49:24 <didleth> alster: hmmm... do you know what?
Nov 28 23:49:41 <didleth> antyspam in imc-pl doesn't interprit * as regular expression
Nov 28 23:49:46 <didleth> only as a word
Nov 28 23:50:00 <didleth> that is syntax-difference what you mind?
Nov 28 23:50:46 <Alster> hmm it must be the most simple syntax then, a plain string matching one
Nov 28 23:51:06 <Alster> grep also supposrts this when you use -F
Nov 28 23:51:20 <didleth> :]
Nov 28 23:51:31 <didleth> ok, continuate
Nov 28 23:52:37 <Alster> let's use that list again we had earlier
Nov 28 23:52:40 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat list.txt
Nov 28 23:52:40 <Alster> beautifulgirl.mov
Nov 28 23:52:40 <Alster> crazygeek.avi
Nov 28 23:52:40 <Alster> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 28 23:52:40 <Alster> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 28 23:52:40 <Alster> didlethnosepicking.wmv
Nov 28 23:52:40 <Alster> kosmos:~#
Nov 28 23:52:54 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat list.txt | grep -F 'p..p'
Nov 28 23:52:54 <Alster> kosmos:~#
Nov 28 23:53:32 <Alster> So this means there is nothing in this file with the exact string 'p..p'
Nov 28 23:53:45 <Alster> but:
Nov 28 23:53:49 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat list.txt | grep 'p..p'
Nov 28 23:53:49 <Alster> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 28 23:53:49 <Alster> kosmos:~#
Nov 28 23:54:15 <didleth> wait\
Nov 28 23:54:23 <Alster> So when grep uses its default regular expression syntax, it does find a match.
Nov 28 23:54:43 <didleth> ok i understand
Nov 28 23:55:08 <didleth> -f is deutliche bedeutung der zeichnen, oder?
Nov 28 23:56:37 <Alster> -F bedeutet dass genau das gesucht wird was Du eingibst
Nov 28 23:56:54 <didleth> yhm
Nov 28 23:57:02 <didleth> sorry for german it was easier
Nov 28 23:57:13 <txopi> aha
Nov 28 23:57:18 <Alster> Not that -F is not the same as -f
Nov 28 23:57:27 <Alster> Note that -F is not the same as -f
Nov 28 23:58:20 <Alster> like everything else on linux shells, command options are usually case sensitive, too
Nov 28 23:58:44 <Alster> so you must always use the right case (upper or lower case)
Nov 28 23:58:54 <didleth> i know, big letter =/ that small letter
Nov 28 23:59:02 <Alster> :) ok
Nov 28 23:59:55 <Alster> so, with the default simple regular expression syntax 'p..p' matches 'poop', and thus grep outputs 'alsterpooping.ogm'
Nov 29 00:00:14 <didleth> yhm
Nov 29 00:00:20 <Alster> That's because '.' matches any single character
Nov 29 00:01:02 <Alster> so it would also match 'alsterpXXping.ogm' or 'alsterp ping.ogm'
Nov 29 00:01:19 <Alster> but not 'alsterpXXXXping.ogm'
Nov 29 00:01:28 <didleth> :-/
Nov 29 00:01:29 <didleth> wait
Nov 29 00:02:10 <didleth> why not 'alsterpXXXXping.ogm' but yes for 'alsterpXXping.ogm' ?
Nov 29 00:02:38 <Alster> because 4 X are not 2 single characters
Nov 29 00:02:54 <Alster> in the pattern, we have two dots
Nov 29 00:02:59 <Alster> 'p..p'
Nov 29 00:03:32 <txopi> my wife is coming soon from work. i am going to prepare something for dinner to she. so i am going to disconnect. i will read the logs at cg, ok?
Nov 29 00:03:35 <Alster> so this regular expression matches any two characters between p's
Nov 29 00:04:00 <Alster> fine with me txopi
Nov 29 00:04:14 <Alster> have a nice night
Nov 29 00:04:25 <txopi> same for you
Nov 29 00:04:26 <didleth> aha, so the number of dots must be the number of zeichnen?
Nov 29 00:04:35 <txopi> good night
Nov 29 00:05:02 <Alster> didleth: one dot = one character
Nov 29 00:05:04 <didleth> have a nice night txopi
Nov 29 00:05:08 <Alster> so yes
Nov 29 00:05:12 <didleth> :]
Nov 29 00:05:14 <didleth> ok
Nov 29 00:05:22 * txopi has disconnected (Quit: Leaving)
Nov 29 00:05:41 <Alster> however, you can grep for 'p.*p'
Nov 29 00:06:01 <Alster> and that will match any number of characters between p and p
Nov 29 00:06:30 <Alster> any number of any character precisely
Nov 29 00:06:45 <Alster> * means 'any number'
Nov 29 00:06:57 <Alster> * means 'any amount of'
Nov 29 00:07:05 <Alster> ^^ that's better
Nov 29 00:07:06 <didleth> itsd necessary to have a dot before *?
Nov 29 00:07:19 <Alster> . means 'any character'
Nov 29 00:07:37 <Alster> yes, you need to have the dot in front of *
Nov 29 00:07:47 <didleth> ok i try to remember
Nov 29 00:08:12 <Alster> * always operates on the last character in the pattern
Nov 29 00:08:32 <Alster> so '.*' is 'any amount of any character'
Nov 29 00:08:50 <Alster> and 'o*' is 'any amount of the character "o"'
Nov 29 00:08:57 <didleth> :-/
Nov 29 00:09:19 <Alster> So if you grep for 'po*p' you will find it, too
Nov 29 00:09:44 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat list.txt | grep 'p.*p'
Nov 29 00:09:44 <Alster> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 29 00:09:44 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat list.txt | grep 'po*p'
Nov 29 00:09:44 <Alster> alsterpooping.ogm
Nov 29 00:09:44 <Alster> kosmos:~#
Nov 29 00:09:59 <didleth> yhm, ok i understand
Nov 29 00:10:06 <Alster> :-]
Nov 29 00:10:10 <didleth> i don't have to have dot when i don't need it
Nov 29 00:10:39 <didleth> but if i want to have a word with a bestimmte zahl of character i can use it
Nov 29 00:10:44 <Alster> correct. with regular expressions you shoould always try to be as explicit as you can
Nov 29 00:11:51 <Alster> well, yes and no
Nov 29 00:12:04 <didleth> anyway i belive i understand it
Nov 29 00:12:11 <didleth> can we go weiter?
Nov 29 00:12:19 <Alster> because dot does not only match letters, but really any character
Nov 29 00:12:26 <Alster> space is also a character
Nov 29 00:12:35 <Alster> or comma or whatever
Nov 29 00:13:15 <didleth> yes i know, i only can't explain it in english ;)
Nov 29 00:14:17 <Alster> Okay, very well
Nov 29 00:14:37 <Alster> Would you liek to learn more about regular expressions or something else?
Nov 29 00:14:44 <didleth> kill?
Nov 29 00:14:51 <didleth> how to kill java in kosmos?
Nov 29 00:14:52 <Alster> killing sounds good
Nov 29 00:14:57 <didleth> hehe
Nov 29 00:15:34 <Alster> there are two ways to kill a process
Nov 29 00:15:52 <Alster> one is 'kill', another is 'killall'
Nov 29 00:16:11 <didleth> hmm...
Nov 29 00:16:12 <didleth> wait
Nov 29 00:16:27 * didleth belive is onces kill some irssi-session
Nov 29 00:17:28 <Alster> are you just looking up the syntax?
Nov 29 00:17:43 <Alster> or do you want me to go on?
Nov 29 00:18:01 <didleth> i'm trying to remember - give me few minutes ok?
Nov 29 00:18:08 <Alster> yes ok
Nov 29 00:19:55 <didleth> ps ax|grep proceskame
Nov 29 00:20:06 <didleth> and than kill [number]
Nov 29 00:20:20 <didleth> or killall procesname ?
Nov 29 00:21:10 <Alster> yes!
Nov 29 00:21:16 <Alster> 'kill' needs to know the ID of a process to kill it
Nov 29 00:21:38 <didleth> hmmm...can we test it on kosmos?
Nov 29 00:21:42 <Alster> thats the number
Nov 29 00:22:39 <Alster> ok
Nov 29 00:22:50 <Alster> kill the cat!
Nov 29 00:23:18 <didleth> ok wait - im going to kosmos it takes time ;]
Nov 29 00:23:40 <Alster> something is definately weird with your connection. we should try to debug that another day
Nov 29 00:25:13 <Alster> join the screen when you're there
Nov 29 00:26:15 <didleth> aha, sorry
Nov 29 00:26:24 <didleth> didn't read irc when im going in kosmos
Nov 29 00:26:35 <didleth> can you watch or i kiled it good?
Nov 29 00:26:50 <Alster> alster@kosmos:~$ cat
Nov 29 00:26:50 <Alster> Terminated
Nov 29 00:26:50 <Alster> alster@kosmos:~$
Nov 29 00:27:12 <Alster> the terminator successfully killed the cat.
Nov 29 00:27:30 <Alster> well done, arnold
Nov 29 00:27:33 <didleth> terminator?
Nov 29 00:27:36 <didleth> :-/
Nov 29 00:27:56 <Alster> :-)
Nov 29 00:27:57 * didleth has only two metal parts in her body ;-/
Nov 29 00:28:02 <Alster> hehe
Nov 29 00:28:15 <Alster> i'm sure you look much better, too
Nov 29 00:28:33 <didleth> ; ) that i'm not sure ;P
Nov 29 00:28:50 <Alster> do you want to kill all cats?
Nov 29 00:29:27 <didleth> Alster: of course not! i like animals!
Nov 29 00:29:38 <didleth> i can go on screen ok
Nov 29 00:29:39 <didleth> ?
Nov 29 00:29:47 <didleth> i want to ask you about something
Nov 29 00:29:47 <Alster> sure
Nov 29 00:29:59 <Alster> but there are too many cats
Nov 29 00:30:31 <Alster> sudo screen -x
Nov 29 00:30:49 <didleth> :D
Nov 29 00:31:00 <didleth> lol forgoten about sudo first time ; )
Nov 29 00:31:32 <didleth> and which is a java i have to kill when stoping tomcat doesnt work?
Nov 29 00:32:01 <Alster> probably all of them
Nov 29 00:32:10 <didleth> killall java ?
Nov 29 00:32:27 <Alster> that will probably not work
Nov 29 00:32:55 <Alster> killall only operates on the process name, not on the options that were passed to the process when it was started
Nov 29 00:33:33 <didleth> so... what is the proces name ? i have to kill all the process who are on screen?
Nov 29 00:33:38 <Alster> /usr/bin/jsvc is the process name of the process which runs Java/Mir
Nov 29 00:34:01 <Alster> you would want to kill those
Nov 29 00:34:18 <didleth> 19797 19798 ?
Nov 29 00:34:25 <didleth> aha ok
Nov 29 00:34:31 <didleth> wait a try find his numer
Nov 29 00:34:33 <Alster> yes, for example, but there are more
Nov 29 00:34:46 <didleth> but morei dont see in scree ;P
Nov 29 00:34:48 <didleth> im try wait
Nov 29 00:35:27 <Alster> pipe it into 'less'
Nov 29 00:35:53 <didleth> komisch...but I still see only the 2 numbers
Nov 29 00:36:13 <Alster> thatÄs becase those lines are so long
Nov 29 00:36:34 <Alster> which command did you just run?
Nov 29 00:37:04 <didleth> ps ax|grep /usr/bin/jsvc
Nov 29 00:37:11 <didleth> ok i'm trying less
Nov 29 00:37:27 <Alster> yes, do that :)
Nov 29 00:38:29 <Alster> wait
Nov 29 00:38:56 <didleth> komisch
Nov 29 00:38:58 <Alster> you can pipe it directly into less, no need to create a file
Nov 29 00:39:02 <didleth> witll less is this same
Nov 29 00:39:16 <Alster> well i see 3 process IDs now
Nov 29 00:39:25 <didleth> I was doing ps ax|grep java >procesyjavy.txt
Nov 29 00:39:37 <Alster> ps ax|grep java|less
Nov 29 00:39:38 <didleth> yes a see three too
Nov 29 00:39:41 <didleth> so itd all?
Nov 29 00:40:03 <Alster> you can do it this way without creating a file ^
Nov 29 00:40:11 <Alster> and yes, it's just three processes
Nov 29 00:40:27 <didleth> ok, i'm try to remember in the future
Nov 29 00:40:53 <Alster> so, how would you kill them?
Nov 29 00:41:00 <didleth> so kill 19796 19797 19798 ?
Nov 29 00:41:29 <Alster> you can only pass one pid to 'kill'
Nov 29 00:41:48 <Alster> so you'd need to invoke it three times
Nov 29 00:41:49 <didleth> aha
Nov 29 00:41:55 <didleth> so i have do this 3 time ?
Nov 29 00:41:58 <didleth> ok
Nov 29 00:42:43 <Alster> and you need to know that 'kill 19796' is not so effective as 'kill -9 19796'
Nov 29 00:42:58 <didleth> wlasnie
Nov 29 00:43:02 <didleth> what is this -9 ?
Nov 29 00:43:07 <Alster> -9 means something like "yes, really really really kill it"
Nov 29 00:43:11 <didleth> it was what i never even tried to understand
Nov 29 00:43:16 <didleth> lol
Nov 29 00:43:24 <didleth> really? ;)
Nov 29 00:43:27 <didleth> i belive :]
Nov 29 00:43:41 <Alster> if you don't use it, it's a softer version
Nov 29 00:43:55 <didleth> yhm
Nov 29 00:44:43 <Alster> 'kill 19796' is more like "can you please ask process 19796 to please stop itself if it's ok for it"?
Nov 29 00:45:20 <Alster> 'kill -9 19796' is like "i hate this fucking process 19796. make it go away, NOW!"
Nov 29 00:45:23 <didleth> yes, its liek japanish
Nov 29 00:46:09 <didleth> with kudasai in verben
Nov 29 00:46:29 <didleth> :]
Nov 29 00:46:32 <didleth> ok i undersnad
Nov 29 00:46:37 <Alster> this 9 is actually called a "signal"
Nov 29 00:46:46 <Alster> there are several other signals, too
Nov 29 00:47:19 <Alster> 1, for example, makes a daemon reread its configuration files
Nov 29 00:47:31 <Alster> it does not kill or restart it
Nov 29 00:47:44 <Alster> see 'man kill' for more info
Nov 29 00:47:53 <didleth> ok, wait
Nov 29 00:49:17 <didleth> :-/
Nov 29 00:49:32 <Alster> what is it?
Nov 29 00:49:55 <didleth> grrrrr....
Nov 29 00:50:02 <didleth> kurwa ;P
Nov 29 00:50:08 <didleth> sorry some problem on kosmos
Nov 29 00:50:24 <Alster> uh oh...
Nov 29 00:51:07 <didleth> ok, so.... can you try man kill on kosmos?
Nov 29 00:51:14 <didleth> 0 - i understand
Nov 29 00:51:37 <didleth> and with 13 and 15 there is no explonation
Nov 29 00:52:08 <Alster> most of them are rarely or even never used
Nov 29 00:52:29 <Alster> and i dont know the meaning of many of them either
Nov 29 00:52:33 <didleth> so i just dont need toi remember them?
Nov 29 00:52:43 <Alster> no
Nov 29 00:52:50 <didleth> :]
Nov 29 00:53:00 <Alster> you really only need to remember 9 and maybe 1
Nov 29 00:53:14 <didleth> and what is 1?
Nov 29 00:53:25 <Alster> <Alster> 1, for example, makes a daemon reread its configuration files
Nov 29 00:54:06 <didleth> can you say it in german?
Nov 29 00:54:12 <Alster> but even that you'll rarely need
Nov 29 00:54:56 <Alster> Das Signal 1 weist einen Dienst an seine Konfigurationsdateien erneut einzulesen.
Nov 29 00:55:41 <didleth> ok ich hoffe ich verstehe
Nov 29 00:56:10 <Alster> you could do this to apache after you made a change in its configuration files
Nov 29 00:56:31 <Alster> because only then would your change become active
Nov 29 00:57:04 <didleth> yhm
Nov 29 00:57:53 <didleth> so....
Nov 29 00:57:54 <Alster> now instead of what you did earlier to determine the ID of a process (ps ax |grep java) you can also use 'pidof java'
Nov 29 00:58:14 <Alster> oh no, that wouldn't work
Nov 29 00:58:23 <Alster> now instead of what you did earlier to determine the ID of a process (ps ax |grep java) you can also use 'pidof jsvc'
Nov 29 00:58:57 <Alster> pidof only works on the process name, not on options which were passed to it when it was started (such as 'java')
Nov 29 00:59:08 <didleth> much easier :]
Nov 29 00:59:23 <Alster> kosmos:~# pidof java
Nov 29 00:59:23 <Alster> kosmos:~# pidof jsvc
Nov 29 00:59:23 <Alster> 19798 19797 19796
Nov 29 00:59:23 <Alster> kosmos:~#
Nov 29 00:59:36 <didleth> i mean - result are only 3 word, you don't have to find it :]
Nov 29 00:59:37 <Alster> but you need to know the process name
Nov 29 00:59:42 <didleth> \yhm
Nov 29 00:59:56 <didleth> so procesname =/ regularexpression
Nov 29 01:00:11 <Alster> hmm?
Nov 29 01:00:30 <didleth> in grep i look for regularexpression
Nov 29 01:00:48 <didleth> with pidof only for name of the process
Nov 29 01:01:11 <Alster> ah yes
Nov 29 01:01:35 <Alster> ok, what's missing? tee?
Nov 29 01:01:54 <didleth> ok - we can dring tee now ;]
Nov 29 01:02:04 <didleth> drink
Nov 29 01:02:13 <Alster> teetime!
Nov 29 01:02:23 <Alster> tee is really simple
Nov 29 01:02:36 <didleth> ok, soo tee....is making cup of tee for sysadmin?
Nov 29 01:02:49 <didleth> is the command coffee to?
Nov 29 01:02:51 <didleth> ;]
Nov 29 01:02:52 <Alster> that would be nice!
Nov 29 01:03:11 <Alster> not that i know, but you can script it
Nov 29 01:03:33 <didleth> :] we relay on you :]
Nov 29 01:03:44 <Alster> we can actually write our first bash script soon
Nov 29 01:03:53 <didleth> but with my coffy-drinking - who knows ;]
Nov 29 01:04:04 <Alster> hehe
Nov 29 01:04:13 <Alster> ok...
Nov 29 01:04:19 <didleth> ok so lets go to tee
Nov 29 01:04:23 <Alster> so think about the output redirection again
Nov 29 01:04:33 <Alster> ls > myfile
Nov 29 01:04:39 <didleth> and axactly... i dont remember what is tree becoude it isnt pstree
Nov 29 01:04:42 <didleth> ok
Nov 29 01:05:12 <Alster> i don't understand?
Nov 29 01:05:28 <didleth> the comand tree
Nov 29 01:05:36 <didleth> but that after tee ok?
Nov 29 01:05:44 <Alster> ok
Nov 29 01:06:11 <Alster> ok, so 'ls > myfile' redirects the output 'ls' generates to myfile
Nov 29 01:06:34 <Alster> so it only goes into the file but you do not get to see it on screen
Nov 29 01:06:55 <Alster> but you can have it both
Nov 29 01:07:09 <Alster> ls | tee myfile
Nov 29 01:07:22 <Alster> this does it both
Nov 29 01:07:39 <Alster> it outputs to screen and writes into myfile
Nov 29 01:08:00 <Alster> if you wanted to append to myfile and not overwrite it, you'd use this instead:
Nov 29 01:08:04 <Alster> ls | tee -a myfile
Nov 29 01:08:09 <didleth> so tee = ls >
Nov 29 01:08:09 <didleth> ?
Nov 29 01:08:10 <Alster> -a as in 'append'
Nov 29 01:08:55 <Alster> no, 'tee somefile' is not exactly the same as '> somefile'.
Nov 29 01:09:31 <Alster> 'ls > somefile' will not print to screen
Nov 29 01:09:45 <Alster> 'ls | tee somefile'
Nov 29 01:09:47 <Alster> will
Nov 29 01:10:01 <didleth> yhm, i understand
Nov 29 01:10:25 <Alster> ok, one more thing you should know about output redirection which we skipped before
Nov 29 01:10:46 <Alster> there's two different types of output an application can make
Nov 29 01:11:25 <Alster> there is "standard output" ('stdout') and there is "standard error output" ('stderr')
Nov 29 01:12:09 <Alster> most applications write error output to stderr, and everything else to stdout
Nov 29 01:12:50 <Alster> so if you run this: ls thisfiledoesntexist > myfile
Nov 29 01:13:13 <Alster> it will print an error message _on screen_, not into 'myfile
Nov 29 01:13:39 <Alster> kosmos:~# ls thisfiledoesntexist > myfile
Nov 29 01:13:39 <Alster> ls: cannot access thisfiledoesntexist: No such file or directory
Nov 29 01:13:39 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat myfile
Nov 29 01:13:39 <Alster> kosmos:~#
Nov 29 01:14:07 <Alster> but you may want to redirect the error messages, too
Nov 29 01:14:25 <didleth> wait i'm trying to understand
Nov 29 01:15:13 <didleth> ok i suppose i understand
Nov 29 01:15:38 <Alster> ok, here's another example where we have output on both stdout and stderr:
Nov 29 01:15:42 <Alster> kosmos:~# ls video1 video3
Nov 29 01:15:42 <Alster> ls: cannot access video3: No such file or directory
Nov 29 01:15:42 <Alster> video1:
Nov 29 01:15:42 <Alster> beautifulgirl.mov crazygeek.avi lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 29 01:15:42 <Alster> kosmos:~#
Nov 29 01:16:38 <Alster> kosmos:~# ls video1 video3 > myfile
Nov 29 01:16:38 <Alster> ls: cannot access video3: No such file or directory
Nov 29 01:16:38 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat myfile
Nov 29 01:16:38 <Alster> video1:
Nov 29 01:16:38 <Alster> beautifulgirl.mov
Nov 29 01:16:38 <Alster> crazygeek.avi
Nov 29 01:16:38 <Alster> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 29 01:16:38 <Alster> kosmos:~#
Nov 29 01:16:59 <Alster> so it did indeed write the video1 stuff into the file
Nov 29 01:17:14 <Alster> but it still reports the error message about video3 on screen
Nov 29 01:17:51 <Alster> now what if we also want that error message to go into myfile?
Nov 29 01:18:29 <Alster> not exactly simple or logical, but you do it like this:
Nov 29 01:18:32 <Alster> ls video1 video3 > myfile 2>&1
Nov 29 01:18:58 <Alster> kosmos:~# ls video1 video3 > myfile 2>&1
Nov 29 01:18:58 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat myfile
Nov 29 01:18:58 <Alster> ls: cannot access video3: No such file or directory
Nov 29 01:18:58 <Alster> video1:
Nov 29 01:18:58 <Alster> beautifulgirl.mov
Nov 29 01:18:58 <Alster> crazygeek.avi
Nov 29 01:18:58 <Alster> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 29 01:18:58 <Alster> kosmos:~#
Nov 29 01:19:11 <didleth> :-/ seems complicates
Nov 29 01:19:14 <Alster> that's one of those things you just need to remember or write down somewhere
Nov 29 01:19:36 <didleth> i don't understand this
Nov 29 01:20:03 <Alster> there are several things involved there, it becomes a bit clearer if we break this up into parts
Nov 29 01:20:11 <didleth> ls video1 video3 > myfile 2 so it will write it to file myfile 2
Nov 29 01:20:22 <didleth> but what means &1
Nov 29 01:20:57 <Alster> no, actually it writes it to the 'myfile' file
Nov 29 01:21:18 <Alster> "2>&1" belongs together, not "myfile 2"
Nov 29 01:21:29 <didleth> :-/
Nov 29 01:21:41 <Alster> let's do some more simple commands
Nov 29 01:22:17 <didleth> ok
Nov 29 01:22:19 <Alster> kosmos:~# ls video1 video3 1> myfile
Nov 29 01:22:19 <Alster> ls: cannot access video3: No such file or directory
Nov 29 01:22:19 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat myfile
Nov 29 01:22:19 <Alster> video1:
Nov 29 01:22:19 <Alster> beautifulgirl.mov
Nov 29 01:22:19 <Alster> crazygeek.avi
Nov 29 01:22:19 <Alster> lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 29 01:22:19 <Alster> kosmos:~#
Nov 29 01:22:49 <Alster> this is exactly the same as if you write it without the '1', as we did it before
Nov 29 01:23:09 <Alster> the '1' here stands for stadout
Nov 29 01:23:14 <Alster> stdout
Nov 29 01:23:42 <Alster> so this says 'redirect standard output to myfile'
Nov 29 01:23:50 <didleth> aha
Nov 29 01:24:12 <Alster> that's what the > does by default, it redirects stdout, and stdout only (so not stderr!)
Nov 29 01:24:34 <didleth> yhm
Nov 29 01:24:41 <Alster> kosmos:~# ls video1 video3 2> myfile
Nov 29 01:24:41 <Alster> video1:
Nov 29 01:24:41 <Alster> beautifulgirl.mov crazygeek.avi lazyanarchist.ogm
Nov 29 01:24:41 <Alster> kosmos:~# cat myfile
Nov 29 01:24:41 <Alster> ls: cannot access video3: No such file or directory
Nov 29 01:24:41 <Alster> kosmos:~#
Nov 29 01:24:47 <Alster> this is the exact opposite
Nov 29 01:25:05 <Alster> now only the error output is redirected and written to myfile
Nov 29 01:25:15 <Alster> stdout is printed on screen
Nov 29 01:25:38 <didleth> so 2> is always for errors?
Nov 29 01:25:48 <Alster> so '2>' redirects stderr and '1>' or just '>' redirects stdout
Nov 29 01:25:58 <didleth> (for writing errors in files)?
Nov 29 01:26:07 <didleth> ok
Nov 29 01:26:35 <Alster> yes, it could be something else technically, but it's usually always for errors, warnings and sometimes for informational messages
Nov 29 01:27:46 <didleth> ok, nad &1?
Nov 29 01:27:52 <didleth> *and
Nov 29 01:29:10 <Alster> alright, so '2>&1' redirects (&) the stderr (2) output to stdout (1)
Nov 29 01:29:33 <didleth> :-/
Nov 29 01:29:53 <didleth> wait
Nov 29 01:30:14 <Alster> it basically means that both stderr and stdout are combined into stdout
Nov 29 01:30:16 <didleth> so the wechselt the error/message in normalne message?
Nov 29 01:30:24 <didleth> in file
Nov 29 01:30:51 <didleth> so the system understand they are both the same typ of message and both can be write in file?
Nov 29 01:31:37 <Alster> remember, we had this command 'ls video1 video3 > myfile 2>&1'
Nov 29 01:31:53 <Alster> this can also be written as this:
Nov 29 01:32:06 <Alster> ls video1 video3 1>myfile 2>&1
Nov 29 01:32:30 <didleth> its this same?
Nov 29 01:32:31 <Alster> as you see, only stdout is redirected to myfile
Nov 29 01:32:40 <Alster> yes it's the same
Nov 29 01:32:57 <Alster> '1>' is the same as '>'
Nov 29 01:33:07 <didleth> you know, so exactly is not so understand for me, but i belive thatwhy becouse its late know - i hope in a day after coffe a will understand it better
Nov 29 01:33:16 <didleth> yhm
Nov 29 01:33:22 <Alster> hehe ok
Nov 29 01:33:43 <Alster> it's actually enough if you know how to write it
Nov 29 01:34:37 <didleth> ok
Nov 29 01:34:46 <Alster> you just need to know that you must write it as 'ls video1 video3 >myfile 2>&1' not as 'ls video1 video3 2>&1 >myfile'
Nov 29 01:35:01 <Alster> since this would not work as intended
Nov 29 01:35:11 <didleth> ok
Nov 29 01:35:35 <Alster> shall we do 'top', then stop?
Nov 29 01:36:15 <didleth> hmmm.... exactly.... i'm not sure or i will think right now
Nov 29 01:36:25 <didleth> we can try, but i not promise to understand
Nov 29 01:36:32 <Alster> ok, it's much simpler
Nov 29 01:36:58 <Alster> i'm just running it in the screen session now
Nov 29 01:37:05 <didleth> ok
Nov 29 01:37:46 <Alster> the first line:
Nov 29 01:37:49 <Alster> top - 01:37:07 up 35 days, 22:47, 2 users, load average: 4.10, 3.72, 3.23
Nov 29 01:38:03 <didleth> i dont see nothnig but belive you ;]
Nov 29 01:38:10 <Alster> that's pretty much the same the 'uptime' and 'w' commands also print
Nov 29 01:38:19 <Alster> you can run it on your PC
Nov 29 01:38:24 <didleth> ok
Nov 29 01:38:50 <Alster> to exit top, press q
Nov 29 01:39:31 <didleth> yhm
Nov 29 01:39:38 <Alster> so 'uptime' is the time the server has been running since the last boot
Nov 29 01:39:50 <Alster> up 35 days, 22:47
Nov 29 01:40:01 <didleth> yhm
Nov 29 01:40:10 <didleth> since last reboot
Nov 29 01:40:11 <Alster> so it's been running for 35 days and 22 hours
Nov 29 01:40:32 <Alster> 01:37:07 is the current system time
Nov 29 01:40:44 <Alster> 2 users, that's you and me
Nov 29 01:41:30 <Alster> 'load average: 4.10, 3.72, 3.23' is how busy the server was in the last minute, 5 minutes ago and 15 minutes ago
Nov 29 01:41:59 <Alster> so 1 minute ago =4.10, 5 minutes ago = 3.72, 15 min. ago = 3.23
Nov 29 01:42:52 <didleth> yhm
Nov 29 01:42:57 <Alster> the load is just a virtual value, it's just a representation of how busy several parts of the system are
Nov 29 01:43:21 <Alster> a good server has a 15 minute average which is below 1.0
Nov 29 01:43:49 <Alster> anything above 1.0 means it is more busy than it should be
Nov 29 01:44:20 <Alster> next line:
Nov 29 01:44:25 <Alster> Tasks: 106 total, 3 running, 102 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie
Nov 29 01:44:43 <Alster> 'tasks' is just a different word for 'processes'
Nov 29 01:44:52 <didleth> so if its 3.23 it means kosmos is to busy?
Nov 29 01:44:57 <Alster> yes
Nov 29 01:45:03 <didleth> :-/
Nov 29 01:45:05 <didleth> poor kosmos
Nov 29 01:45:27 <Alster> hehe, well it means it is busier than it shoudl ideally be
Nov 29 01:45:47 <Alster> it would help if it had better/more hardware resources
Nov 29 01:47:21 <didleth> yhm
Nov 29 01:47:33 <Alster> there are 106 processes active, 3 of them were actually doing something by the time I copied this, 102 were active but not currently doing something (sleeping), none of these active processes were in sleep mode (temporarily suspended) and one was in a broken state
Nov 29 01:48:35 <Alster> zombie processes are listed as "<defunct>" in the 'ps auxw' output
Nov 29 01:48:47 <Alster> root 18626 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? Zs Nov27 0:00 [sh] <defunct>
Nov 29 01:49:15 <Alster> next line in the 'top' output:
Nov 29 01:49:18 <Alster> Cpu(s): 83.5%us, 13.5%sy, 3.0%ni, 0.0%id, 0.0%wa, 0.0%hi, 0.0%si, 0.0%st
Nov 29 01:49:30 <didleth> but...what is zombie
Nov 29 01:49:47 <didleth> i don't understand :-/
Nov 29 01:49:52 <Alster> a process which is in a broken state
Nov 29 01:50:10 <Alster> it is still there somehow but not really working
Nov 29 01:50:14 <Alster> an undead process
Nov 29 01:50:34 <didleth> yhm
Nov 29 01:50:46 <didleth> thatwhy is called zombie?
Nov 29 01:50:56 <Alster> you normally handle zombie processes the same way you handle real life zombies, too
Nov 29 01:51:02 <Alster> yes
Nov 29 01:51:19 <Alster> you kill -9 them
Nov 29 01:51:42 <Alster> because they are just useless and get in your way
Nov 29 01:52:18 <didleth> so i should kill zombie in kosmos now?
Nov 29 01:52:27 <Alster> sure, why not
Nov 29 01:52:28 <didleth> i'm not sure its good idea
Nov 29 01:52:35 <Alster> i am
Nov 29 01:52:41 <didleth> i'm sliping and can do something wrong
Nov 29 01:53:01 <Alster> that's life
Nov 29 01:53:08 <didleth> you no, onces i would delete fast alle backups
Nov 29 01:53:24 <Alster> consoles are mighty :)
Nov 29 01:53:27 <didleth> zum glueck habe das aber fur zeit geguckt
Nov 29 01:53:50 <didleth> ok, so for yopu responsibility ;P
Nov 29 01:54:00 <Alster> kill is one of the commands you should only execute after thinking twice
Nov 29 01:54:10 <Alster> just like rm
Nov 29 01:55:17 <Alster> but unless you kill the 'init' or 'ssh' process its not really much of a problem, since you can just restart it
Nov 29 01:55:35 * didleth is looking for a zombie-process
Nov 29 01:57:10 <Alster> there's exactly 1
Nov 29 01:57:23 <Alster> i'm getting tired...
Nov 29 01:57:51 <didleth> but which one :-/
Nov 29 01:58:12 <didleth> very sorry alster, tats becouse i'm tired too and think slowly
Nov 29 01:58:37 <Alster> no problem
Nov 29 01:58:58 <Alster> the 'defunct' process is the zombie process
Nov 29 01:59:32 <Alster> <Alster> zombie processes are listed as "<defunct>" in the 'ps auxw' output
Nov 29 01:59:32 <Alster> <Alster> root 18626 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? Zs Nov27 0:00 [sh] <defunct>
Nov 29 02:00:05 <didleth> kill 18626 ?
Nov 29 02:00:20 <Alster> yes
Nov 29 02:00:30 <Alster> but this may not suffice to kill a real zombie
Nov 29 02:01:39 <Alster> you really, really, really need to kill a zombie
Nov 29 02:02:01 <didleth> kill -9 18626
Nov 29 02:02:05 <didleth> ?
Nov 29 02:02:07 <Alster> right :)
Nov 29 02:02:22 <Alster> just as in real life, shooting them once is often not enough
Nov 29 02:03:38 <didleth> hehe, i don't know - I have nobody shooted yet ;]
Nov 29 02:04:28 <Alster> the zombie process is still happily zombieing, too
Nov 29 02:04:46 <Alster> root 18626 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? Zs Nov27 0:00 [sh] <defunct>
Nov 29 02:04:46 <didleth> :-/
Nov 29 02:04:50 <didleth> so i did somethnig wrong
Nov 29 02:05:03 <Alster> maybe, or it just can't be killed
Nov 29 02:05:12 <Alster> unfortunately those do exist
Nov 29 02:05:13 <didleth> :-/ veto
Nov 29 02:05:16 <didleth> it hevo to be
Nov 29 02:05:23 <didleth> maybe kill -999 ?
Nov 29 02:05:27 <Alster> hehehe
Nov 29 02:05:32 <didleth> i will try
Nov 29 02:05:37 <Alster> no, in this case you'd reboot
Nov 29 02:06:35 <didleth> but what reboot exactly?
Nov 29 02:06:41 <Alster> the server
Nov 29 02:07:23 <Alster> if you have a zombie process which cannot be removed with kill -9, then the only option to remove it is by rebooting
Nov 29 02:08:07 <Alster> but this little zombie we have here eats no memory and doesn't cause any cpu load, so it's not a problem
Nov 29 02:08:16 <didleth> sudo etc/init.d/kosmos restart ?
Nov 29 02:08:48 <didleth> with / before etc oc
Nov 29 02:08:50 <Alster> hehe, 'kosmos' is not a daemon
Nov 29 02:09:14 <didleth> so what we need to restart? apache?
Nov 29 02:09:35 <Alster> kosmos is a server. the command to restart a server is 'reboot'
Nov 29 02:10:21 <Alster> you could reboot kosmos now, but i wouldn't do it since it's probably just doing the backups
Nov 29 02:10:24 <didleth> but... we are the only one in server right now? will reboot don't do something wrong?
Nov 29 02:10:43 <didleth> ok
Nov 29 02:10:51 <didleth> so let this zombie live
Nov 29 02:10:59 <Alster> \o/
Nov 29 02:11:09 <didleth> sorry for making this so hardy
Nov 29 02:11:18 <didleth> but i warning you ; )
Nov 29 02:11:26 <Alster> yes you did ;-)
Nov 29 02:11:38 <Alster> let's stop here for today, i'm falling asleep
Nov 29 02:11:49 <didleth> ok - thx for the session
Nov 29 02:11:55 <didleth> you realy good teach :]
Nov 29 02:12:02 <Alster> thank you :)
Nov 29 02:12:21 <Alster> could you put the log into crabgrass?
Nov 29 02:12:33 <Alster> maybe tomorrow
Nov 29 02:12:55 <Alster> well i can do it too then, we'll see whoever gets to do it first
Nov 29 02:13:36 <didleth> ok so tomorrow
Nov 29 02:13:47 <didleth> well...today exactly....but after sleeping ; )
Nov 29 02:13:49 <didleth> btw alster
Nov 29 02:14:00 <Alster> :)
Nov 29 02:14:11 <didleth> we have forgotten to add to agenda the next meeting but i belive we can discuss it on list
Nov 29 02:14:31 <Alster> i guess we'll have to
Nov 29 02:15:14 <Alster> and yes, you're right
Nov 29 02:15:47 <Alster> ok, so bye bye and a good night to you
Nov 29 02:16:01 <didleth> ok, have a nice sleep to you too :]
Nov 29 02:16:08 <didleth> and till next meeting :]
